Thin Privilege. Yes, It Does Exist.
Privilege… it’s something everyone has in some form or another*, but nobody wants to admit.
I have a lot of it in my personal situation.
I am a (lower) middle class cisgendered** straight white lady who lives in a medium sized city in the US.
That’s a whole passel of privilege right there, but anyone living that life might not notice it, because I was pretty much BORN INTO all of those things. And when something “is what it is”, it’s often not noticed as a privilege at all. Indoor plumbing… not too many people think of that as a “privilege” - but just ask someone who lives without it.
HOWEVER! There are some privileges that one DOES notice. Because they can come and go. And what I want to focus on today is a privilege that I have not always had, and that is the privilege of being thin in the United States.
I was a chubby kid (well, not really, but enough so that I was mocked by the skinny kids for not being skinny). I was a fat teen. I was an extremely fat young adult. I was a not-quite-deathfat-but-could-be-mistaken-for-it 27 year old.
Not getting into all of the issues behind that journey…
Anywho. The point is, I lived a long time without this thin privilege.
So now that I am identified in this society on sight as a thin, not fat person, I have found that there are an awful lot of things that I can do and take for granted now that I used to have to worry about and plan for as a fat person.
Things that thin people take for granted that are actually Thin Privilege…
- I can go into any restaurant and not worry about whether the seating will accommodate me.
- I can plan an airline trip without worrying about anything more than my carry-on fitting in the overhead bin.
- If I lose my luggage, as long as I have a credit card, I can pretty much go anywhere (even an airport gift shop!) and grab something to wear to replace what I packed.
- I can go into any store in the mall and pretty much be guaranteed that I could find something to wear.
- I can walk into “The Express” and the sales clerks will actually ask me if there is anything they can help me with and mean it. (Honestly… the first time I went into an Express and this happened to me, I really didn’t know what to think. I had NEVER had an Express employee politely ask if they could help me in all the years I had been going in there with thin friends and relatives. I had NEVER had one of them not either glaze over or actively sneer at me, as though I was sullying their fine store with my presence. Um, I don’t actually buy things there now any more than I used to… because they don’t make clothes for my personality, even though they will now fit my butt (and, also, I do try to steer my $ towards more fat-friendly places)… but I still go there with friends and relatives. The attitude difference is astounding.)
- I can stand right out on the street or in the middle of a mall, and eat a giant ice cream cone, or hot dog, or whatever other food item I chose, and NO ONE is going to stare, point, laugh, or whisper about my choice of comestible.
- I can wear form fitting clothing without people mocking me (at least within earshot).
- Nobody is going to complain to me if I choose to wear a bikini that I am somehow ruining their day.
- Nobody is examining the contents of my shopping cart at the grocery store and acting as the food police if I put some ice cream in it.
- I can walk through a crowded room and not worry if I might have to ask someone to move out of my way. In fact! I can walk through a crowded space and actually touch another person to make them aware of my passing WITHOUT it causing horrified complaints of how dare I displace them with my need to move through the area.
- I could go on, but I think I have made my point.
Going through life as a fat person means CONSTANTLY taking care to not impinge on others, lest you happen to impinge on one that is a shouter. It means that other people think you are fair game for hostile comments. It means that your very existence is fodder for nasty commentary - even by people who would otherwise consider themselves to be VERY NICE, COMPASSIONATE people.
While the absence of that might not seem like much to someone who has not lived with it… I can tell you that moving through the world without being noticed and called out, now that is a very big privilege indeed… and one that I hope one day can be an “everyone” privilege… not just thin.
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*OK, there’s got to be some human out there in the world who has absolutely ZERO innate privileges based solely on who / what / where they are… but I don’t know who they are. I think any time two humans get together, ONE of them is going to have the upper hand based on something.
**And hey! I just found out what cisgendered means! (I identify as the gender that matches my outward appearance in this society)
Great post NCP. I think the right to not be noticed is one that thin people take for granted. I think that fat men have that privilege to a certain extent. At least they have that privilege at a much higher weight than fat women do.
And I like what you said about how fat people are expected to not impinge on others’ space. That’s the whole thrust of the flying while fat issue… it’s not just that people are physically uncomfortable sitting next to a fat person, it’s more that they are psychologically uncomfortable with it. They are more disgusted than cramped.
Same goes with bathing suits. People think it’s unattractive to see a fat person in a bathing suit, so they expect us to stay home or form some sort of fatty pool club. It’s like how there are these wealthy liberals who support clean energy, yet don’t want wind turbines desecrating their ocean view.
Peace,
Shannon
Thanks for putting in the icons, Shannon. Sometimes I forget these details!
I forget how to do those.
Thin privilege, I still haz it. I went to the fair the other night with my hubby and thanked the gods I’m not fatter because I wouldn’t have been able to ride on the rides with my son or with the hubby. As it was, as a small fat person, my butt, hips and boobs were squished on the very narrow seats. Even my hubby’s butt was smooshed, and his isn’t big!
Don’t even get me started on amusement park ride seats! I stopped going to theme parks when I was around 17 because I could no longer fit into any of the good rides.
I found out that I don’t miss them at all, and I really haven’t been back since. Too much money too!
Great post. I lost weight and then regained it - and the gaining and then losing of the thin privilege (even though I wasn’t “thin” - just thin enough to pass for average and blend into the crowd) - and the force with which I felt the privilege come and then go really had an impact on me. It’s amazing how much thinking one puts into being fat in a public space. It’s exhausting.
The one thing you didn’t list that always stood out to me was people holding doors open. After losing weight, people started holding doors open at stores and other similar places. It wasn’t until they started that I realized they hadn’t been doing it before.
I never noticed that one myself… but then I hate having doors held for me, so if I am walking close enough behind someone that I think they might hold the door (other than, you know - RIGHT behind) then I purposely slow down so there’s so much space that holding the door would be awkward and stupid.
Don’t ask me why - I just hate having people hold doors for me. Makes me crazy.
Nah, there are times I hate it, too. But it was just astounding to me that, previously, people weren’t bothering to simply reach their arm out and hold the door behind them for me. At the time I noticed this, I was working in NYC and getting breakfast at the same corner deli daily… so it was a noticeable change in a set pattern.
My hatred of people holding doors open stems from hating being a fat person walking quickly or nearly jogging to catch up to someone “nicely” holding the door for me (paranoia about body parts moving while walking quickly or jogging for a few steps).
I think that’s what I hate… DO NOT MAKE ME MOVE FASTER JUST SO YOU CAN HOLD THE DOOR OPEN!!!
Hey now, I hold doors for people and now you ladies are making me feel bad!
I mean, if I see someone start to run, I usually say, “It’s okay, I’m not in a hurry.” I’m just trying to be nice.
Great, Catholic guilt is washing over me now.
Peace,
Shannon
Fab post. As a DeathFatz, it’s good to see people talking about thin privilege. It’s all about the experiences that people of thinness don’t have to be concerned about.
That’s not what cisgendered means.
Um… her gender identity aligns with the social context assigned to it, so yeah, that is what it means. Care to clarify?
Peace,
Shannon
But we take actions to achieve or maintain either a thin or an overweight body. The individual, for better or worse, is always reaping what they have sown. Wouldn’t it only be a privilege if the conditions were based on an innate and unchanging trait?
Matt,
Our blog explores just how changeable the thin or overweight body is. There is a significant amount of evidence that suggests that it’s not quite as malleable as we would think. I wrote this post about this issue, but we have tons more if you’re interested.
Peace,
Shannon
It is in my case. I have no control over my weight.
Get this and the next couple comments off this blog, it’s probably that deranged fuckhead again. Flagged.
CC,
It looks like we’re on 4 chan, but I can’t see the source at work. I’ll find out later. Making emergency edits to remove the hate. Questions or benign comments will be left.
Peace,
Shannon
>delete the opposition
lol
freethinkers my ass
Not the opposition, just assholes. You started to make a valid concern, then buried it in hatred. If you want to challenge us, go for it, but don’t be an asshole: http://fiercefatties.com/2010/06/03/thin-privilege-yes-it-does-exist/#comment-5388
Peace,
Shannon
WHY ARE YOU OPPRESSING MY FREEDUMB UF SPEESCH?! MY IDEAS ARE NOT BIGOTED, YOU ARE THE BIGOTS FOR NOTICING THAT MY IDEAS ARE BIGOTED
LOL It’s funny because he most likely knew how unlikely it was that the whole “freedom of speech” like would work.
If he didn’t… even funnier.
It’s a shame… some people are asking valid questions about whether body size is genetic vs. behavior, then mixing it with fat hating bullshit.
Attention 4Channers, if you want to ask questions, that’s cool, but if you’re just here to stir up shit, I will delete you. Typically, we don’t moderate at all, but we recently pissed off Bigger, Fatter Blog and although I can’t visit the link you’re coming from to verify (I’m at work), I’m pretty sure they had something to do with putting us on your radar.
I welcome a fierce debate, but hatred will not be tolerated at all.
Peace,
Shannon
No, dude, don’t even encourage them. These aren’t people seeking answers- they’ve GOT their answers. The biggest mistake we could possibly make is to extend any sort of olive branch to these losers. They don’t care about our ideology.
I did do something about it. Instead of piggishly wallowing in the diet/exercise (for weight loss) merry-go-round, I joined some fat rights groups over the years. This takes a lot more courage than following the crowd like a brainless sheep. You should be proud of me.
You shouldn’t hate excuses, since most are legitimate. First of all, why should I need an excuse to be fat? Second, we are being discriminated against - there are plenty of studies that attest to this. You should get off your lazy ass and read one or two.
Yes, fat is in my genes, as is height, skin color, eye color, intelligence and a few other things. I wasn’t born fat, but then I wasn’t born at my present height either. Were you?
Which is why 4 channers and those that seek out to troll blogs and spout hate for people they don’t even know are pathetic losers. You say we make excuses for not trying to get thin, well what’s your excuse for not trying to act like human beings?
Hey, I did say FUCK EVERYBODY ELSE. Maybe not everyone, but I’ll start with you. How you got into law school with your dearth of logical skills is a mystery.
Now you could hang around here and shut up and maybe learn something, or you could shoot your mouth off and ignorantly assume that everyone’s body will respond like yours. Your choice. You can do anything you put your mind to.
I often think about the amount of effort it would take to lose weight so I’m “normal weight” and to maintain it. I’m about twenty pounds overweight, current BMI between 27 and 28. Anyway, I decided that it isn’t worth the effort. I suppose that’s a choice. The effort it would take would be to eat less than what my body desires and to exercise three or more hours a day. It might require four or more hours of exercise a day. I tried to live this way and only managed for about two years.
I figure it’s not worth feeling like I’m starving all the time, obsessed with food. Read the studies on starvation. Someone on a diet feels that way all the time. It wasn’t worth planning to exercise everyday like it was a nonpaying job. I decided losing weight is a vanity in my case. My health is probably not effected by the ‘extra’ weight. Life expectancies aren’t shorter for overweight people, they are higher. Not dieting, may add years to my life.
It definitely gives me more time to live it. I don’t waste the time that I have on Earth only thinking about food and scheduling exercise when I’m not exercising. Then, when I eat only about two-third of the amount of food that I want, I think about food when I’m exercising. I think about food all the time that I’m awake. When I eat the amount of food that I want, I only think about food when I’m eating or preparing food. I’m not obsessed with food. My weight is stable at that higher number without me needing to monitor what I eat or how much I exercise. It is effortless.
I think that’s a healthy attitude… I would NEVER advocate that another person takes on the part time job that is my maintenance program if they were not the originators of the idea… I only give advice when asked for it… and even then I start out with an explanation of how “not easy” it really is.
While it is indeed true that for some being fat is a genetic condition, it’s also true that for one poor chump with poor genes, there are other 10 that are just lazy and/or uneducated about food and eating in general.
I’m talking about people that deep-fry everything that they cook, or that only drink soda in place of water, and so on. There are plenty of people like that, which don’t have the slightest clue about why they’re fat, and blame it on genetics, claiming as a proof the fact that their whole family is fat. That’s not proof of bad genetics, that’s proof of bad habit. If you see somebody that only eats deep-fried foods, you can bet an arm that their mom deep-fried everything, too. And they don’t realize that, and go on blaming genetics…
Unsurprisingly, nutrition is not black and white. Deep-frying is not bad per se, abusing it is, and the same goes for soda. But I’m sure everybody who is reading this blog already knows these things. I used to be 40-ish pounds overweight, which is not that much and quite common. By cutting down on soda and processed foods I managed to lose them all - and I’m not one that exercises a lot, quite the contrary. That doesn’t mean that I’m obsessed about not drinking soda, it just means that when I’m thirsty, my first action is now to reach for the bottle of water, not the bottle of pepsi, and that I try to cook for myself instead of eating out or ordering each night.
Anyway, I’m digressing. My point is that, in my opinion, most of the people that claims to be fat due to poor genes, are just lazy and/or can’t accept the fact that it’s THEIR fault, and don’t even try to realize what is getting them fat in the first place. They try some idiot diet (there’s plenty of COMPLETELY MORONIC diets out there, ugh) that make them feel really sick, and decide that they will never be able to lose weight, or that it is too much effort. Worst part is that these people really ruin it for those who REALLY can’t do a thing about their weight - there’s plenty of people out there, but they unfortunately get drowned by the screams of the lazy and stupid people who can’t accept their weight is only their fault.
I for myself, am now in great shape, and exercise very little. I try to have my macronutrients balanced (40% carbs, 30% proteins and 30% fats, or something like that, I’m not very precise), and I discovered I’m way less hungry than I was before. Yeah, I might be lucky, but can’t it be that a lot of people just don’t research enough before deciding that they can’t do shit about their weight?
Well, I digressed a bit, but I hope you got my point.
And perhaps the point that you missed was… people are perfectly free to be fat. They don’t need to be un-fat to please other people. People should be treated with basic human decency no matter what their body looks like.
Nope, I didn’t miss the point, mine was a reply to another comment, but I missed the “reply” link and posted it as a stand-alone comment instead. Sorry ’bout that.
I agree with you, but only to a certain point. Some of the stuff you point out in your post is completely legitimate and true - a fat person should be serviced like everybody else at a restaurant, for example. But also, a fat person should not really expect to find something their size at some shops. You are out of place buying there, just like I would be out of place dressed like a businessman in a goth clothes store. I talk about goth clothes because I used to go there with my ex girlfriend a lot - she was really into that stuff. I was not, and when we went into these stores - she dressed in leather, me jeans & tshirt - the clerks would only talk to her and ignore me, under the assumption that I had no business there. They were right.
But that’s just an example. Society tends towards “normalcy” which is not “what everybody should be”, but it is “what most people is on average”. Look at some of your points from another point of view: while a good reastaurant should have a decent number of larger-sized seatings (and a lot of places in my area actually do), it’s not feasible for an airplane to have most of his seatings plus sized to accomodate larger people. Obese people is a minority, and they would be wasting their space. But that’s not a prejudice against fat people: I had the exact same problem when I had a broken leg, I couldn’t fit into most airplanes (and I travel by plane a lot due to work) because the space between rows was too little. Why didn’t they think about my broken leg, because it’s not the common condition. Train wagons usually have just one or two wheelchair seatings, because it’s not the common condition. Buses in my area have one or two plus sized seatings, because that’s not the common condition. You get the idea.
Once, an acquaintance of mine pointed out that actually being fat is, in the majority of the cases, a privilege. My parents are both farmers, and when I was young (I’m in my upper 50), food was VERY scarce, and having even just an ounce of fat was very, very hard. We had the obese diabetic kid in our class, and the mocking only lasted until third or fourth grade - kids can always find a way to mock another kid, and that’s hardly a surprise. Even today, you see very few people obese in the poorest countries/cities. And I really don’t think that being poor somewhat makes you immune to the fat genes. But that’s another can of worms entirely.
I think that the “lazy-fatties” are actually making stuff much, much worse for everybody. For thin people, because they can be obnoxious and annoying. For the “legitimate” fatties, because they (the lazy) tend to be way more noticeable - and in way larger numbers. Lazy fatties are also way more prone to try and pretend very hard that their size is not what it is - walking on the street with a bare midriff has been invented by girls who WANTED to be looked at. Being looked at comes with judging. Be obese, bare your midriff, and you WILL be looked at - and judged accordingly. For bikinis I agree with you, you are free to have your tan the way you like it. But things are not black and white, never.
If obese people are the minority, why does the media say we have an obesity “epidemic”?
And for someone who says “things are not black and white” you seem awfully fond of making oversimplified blanket black and white opinions-as-statements about fat people.
Fat may have been a (misleading and oversimplified) sign of privilege back when Henry VIII had his gout, but no one in America today looks at a fat person and thinks “how lucky and prosperous they must be.”
Also, how do you explain people who eat tons of fried food and are not fat?
The idea of “legitimate” fatness is ridiculous because it operates on the premise that a person is required (despite this being a supposedly free society) to justify their personal choices and overall life to anyone else. WHY you are fat should have nothing to do with how you are treated as a fellow human being.
I’m glad you feel good about yourself, but I don’t understand why one would need a support group for being overweight. If you’re uncomfortable with your weight, do your best to change. If you’re comfortable with your weight, well what do you need support for again?
I somewhat agree with those that say weight is not always a choice. On the other side of the coin, I was unable to gain a pound until I was in my mid 20′s. It didn’t matter what I ate or how much I exercised. I was a stick thin bag of bones eating 5,000 calories PLUS a case of soda a day, no water. I had a naturally hyper metabolism. It slowed down at about 24 or 25 and I had gained 40 lbs. I had a belly and a double chin and felt fat. At which point I decided that it was time for me to make a change. So I adjusted my caloric intake, started drinking a glass of water between each soda. I still don’t exercise as much as I should, but every time I pinch and inch on my belly I get just a little more motivated. While I know that not everyone can simply make small changes and see results, I’ve never met a horizontally superior person who counts their calories and makes sure to burn more than they take in.
I’m back down to about 155, from my high of 192, I’m still about 5 lbs over goal. Some here will say that I wasn’t fat enough for this subject to apply to me, or that I have thin privilege. I’ve read great examples of such on this site and others like it, and respectfully disagree. The things described such as the constant worry about people talking about or judging them are universal for anyone without confidence or self esteem. When I have any measurable body fat, I feel gross. I can’t help it. When I’m at my thinnest, I worry that people think I’m poor and can’t afford food. Or that I’m sick and dying. Oh, and I hope you never have to know the pain of watching big muscular military guys hit on your girlfriend at a bar because they know that your 140 lb ass ain’t gonna do shit about it.
/end rant
I get your point and the thing is, nobody here is saying genetics is solely responsible. I don’t have time for a full response, but I will respond further later.
I can’t speak for everyone on this site, but I believe that the increase in weight is due to genetics plus environment, but the environmental part is complicated and does not just include the dietary aspect.
Peace,
Shannon
Most people don’t have the slightest clue why they’re fat, or thin or in-between. That doesn’t stop some people from thinking they know all there is to know, and that everyone else’s body works exactly like theirs does regarding food/exercise.
In my view, “fault” works both ways. It is as stupid for people to treat me as “less than” for my fatness as it is for them to compliment me on weight loss.
From what I have observed, most people don’t care if you deep-fry, or how many hours you exercise - they only respond to how you look. That is why so many people go on dangerous diets. They know that their habits don’t matter to most others, just their looks.
I don’t deep-fry by the way - I’m far too lazy to want to bother cleaning the oil out of the pot afterwards.
Airline seats aren’t even comfortable for average-size people. I’d rather take a train, if possible. You know, airlines will make conditions as uncomfortable as they can get away with. They squeeze out fat people because we’re unpopular and they can get away with it. But even if they got rid of all of us, they would start squeezing out the long-legged, the tall, the mothers-with-infants, etc., if they’re not already doing it.
If those dressed in jeans and t-shirts or in business suits were known to buy a significant amount of goth clothing items, I’m sure they would be quite welcome at such stores. Aren’t businessmen welcome at Victoria’s Secret, even thouvgh they’re not (presumably) buying the clothing for themselves to wear?
As far as judging by looks is concerned, I had an attack of psoriasis some years ago, and people weren’t harsh about that; indeed some acted rather concerned, or told me about someone else they knew who had it. That’s certainly more civilized than the treatment many fat people get. Yet, psoriasis is quite ugly, no doubt about it. You get these deep mottled red blotches with flakes hanging off, and skin so dry that you could make it bleed by merely stretching it a little . There are treatments for it - as with fat, the more effective the treatment, the more dangerous it is. Some treatments can even trigger a rebound and make it worse. To say that fat is uglier than this is beyond insane. That’s where the prejudice comes in.
There’s more, will save it for a future post.
“The most common health problem among endurance exercisers is heat disease. This is a serious condition which has resulted in death in a high percentage of cases, even in highly trained, young athletes.”
Nothing I worry about, I love to exercise, but I keep it reasonable, make sure I have plenty of water, don’t exercise when it is too hot, wear loose clothing and keep an eye out for symptoms of heat disease.
I know this is an old thread but I’ll jump on here anyway. I haven’t really experienced the disadvantages of being “fat” even though I had a BMI of nearly 37 for several years. I am a short person so my excess weight wasn’t much beyond the normal weight of average height people. I never had a problem on rides or airplanes. I’ve never not fit into a booth at eatery. And I’ve never had people comment on what was in my shopping cart.
Actually, strike that last one. I was vegetarian for a couple years. It was food preference more than the “religious” reasons many vegetarians seem to have. And I got sick really quickly of the evangelists at the grocery store recognizing me as one of them by my cart and feeling like I must be willing to hear about PETA or animal-rights or organic this, free range that, how honey is abusing bees. LOL… so I get that one. Maybe not to the extreme but I know how annoying it can be.
I’ve also always carried my weight really well. When people heard what my weight was they always were shocked. But I decided I wanted to lose it. I have lost some (BMI of 30 now) and would like to lose a little more. It is way too soon to see if I can keep it off. But all that has nothing to do with my post.
My GF, whom I love very much, is large. She is very large. I love her as she is and don’t care if she loses a pound. But she has opened my eyes to thin privilege. There are places we don’t eat at because we already know she won’t fit in the booths. We once drove 85 minutes (each way) to a specialty clothes store where she knew she could get clothes that fit her body. When we go to an amusement park, she looks at the roller-coasters with a sad longing because she loved them once but can’t fit in them now… and even the larger seats sometimes are not right for her dimensions. It is embarrassing enough (she tells me) to be told you’re too big for the normal seats but worse to be told you still don’t fit in the bigger seats. So she no longer tries. She worries about my weight loss because she thinks I won’t love her if I am thin… because I will find a thin woman to love. It’s not true but that’s what society tells her.
There are other things, some listed above, that I have become aware of since we’ve been together. And while I was “fat”… I wasn’t treated as it. I worry about her weight sometimes… only because she has a family history of type II diabetes (both parents) and sleep apnea. But I don’t pressure her or even ask her to consider losing weight. I keep my concerns about those things to myself. But they worry me because I don’t want to lose her at a younger age than I otherwise would.
Kevin, you’ve picked an interesting thread in which to pose your question. The hostile remarks you see were directed at trolls whose posts have since been removed. If you don’t get many answers in this thread, you might want to re-post in the Let It Out section.
AFAIK, diabetes is more likely to cause fat than the other way around. There are things your girlfriend can do for diabetes that can stave it off for a while, or mitigate symptoms even if she doesn’t lose a pound. Exercise, for example, helps the body use its natural insulin better. Vesta here, whose husband has Type 2 diabetes, is quite knowledgeable on the subject and I’m sure she could direct you to some fat-friendly resources if you need them. My knowledge is just generalities.
In spite of the hoopla you’re probably hearing, weight loss surgery does not cure diabetes. It masks the symptoms because the person is eating so little. If your girlfriend ever considers it, we can point you to resources that tell you about its negative side, which you seldom hear elsewhere.
Depending on your lady’s size and taste, you can find people in the Fatosphere who can suggest places to find good clothing.
Your girlfriend, of course, is more than welcome to post here and many other blogs. This one is a good place to start, since it’s more forgiving of people who don’t know the jargon. For example, in fat acceptance, people usually consider the word “fat” as politer than the word “overweight”, whereas it’s the other way round in the world at large. It’s also nice to get away from the constant loseweightloseweightloseweight drumbeat that one hears everywhere else.
Thanks for dropping by!
I might post some stuff elsewhere. I meant to respond to the OP and not the comments under it. But I wasn’t paying attention and it ended up being posted in response to a reply that I wasn’t thinking of. I didn’t really have a question. I was just pointing out that I only recently realized the reality of “Thin Privilege” because of my current GF. Despite being fat myself, I had the advantages of carrying it well, being a man (which is more forgiving), and being short so my actual weight was only slightly over a normal weight for a tall person. Thanks to my time with her, I have experienced the reality of many of the things mentioned in the OP.
I’m glad this place is pretty forgiving. I read that I shouldn’t be talking numbers (like BMI) only after I made that comment. I would never consider WLS (see, I can learn some acronyms) as something I would encourage. There are things I believe and I don’t believe in such drastic steps. I know that weight is much less an indicator of health than activity level. I try and encourage her to go walk with me, swim, and I’m trying to work her up to the idea of getting a bike. I like to ride around town. She’s not into that so it might not happen.
But I won’t lie. I do worry. I know she worries too because she’s told me that she was very worried about getting her blood work done and being told she is pre-diabetic. It came back fine… thankfully. With that family history, I know the risk is high though. So I keep quiet. I fell in love with her at the weight she is now. I don’t want her to change. I am encouraging her to keep appointment for the sleep apnea test to see if she needs that uncomfortable mask or whatever. She keeps putting it off though. We both know she has at least a mild (if not moderate) form of it… and she’s always exhausted from it and never gets sleep. I know she hates the idea of a mask but if she gets rest, I would be thrilled.
Anyway… shhhh… she doesn’t know I found a site like this. LOL. I don’t know how she would handle me being on here. I’m here more to learn stuff about boosting her self esteem, encouraging fitness and health at her current weight (or whatever weight, plus or minus, she happens to be at in the future), and maybe seeing if there’s stuff that can help alleviate my concerns about her health.
Keep encouraging her to get a sleep study. The mask doesn’t have to be uncomfortable, it just takes some getting used to (that might be the same thing).
I went pretty much because my husband really wanted me to go and I kind of knew I needed to, but I also needed the push to go.
It was weird getting hooked up to all kinds of things and hard to sleep knowing that I was being watched through a camera, but the few hours of sleep I had with the CPAP on was the best sleep I’d had in years.
I was horrified when I first put the mask on because it’s entirely unsexy, but my sweet husband said something about realizing a sci-fi sex fantasy, which made it a lot better.
The CPAP can change a life, I hardly ever drink anything with caffeine and I was bursting with energy when I woke up in the mornings (that extra energy feeling goes away eventually because it’s not new anymore, but the actual energy is still there.)
Sleep is how the body restores itself from daily stress. Sleep is the most important thing you can do for you body.
Okay, enough rambling. I hope you can get her to sleep study, if you do, some places want to do two nights, and some one night, shoot for one night, that’ll be easier to tolerate.
I will keep encouraging her as much as I can. I don’t want her to feel pressured but I feel like this will be something that is going to make her so much happier in the long run. I am not her; so, it’s not my place to say for sure. I do feel like that.
She was really uncomfortable with the doctor she went to. He was rude and basically chastised her because she was told to do it years ago but didn’t. And he was really not kind or understanding. So she didn’t go back.
She wants to find a different place to go in a larger city. I will do whatever I can do to help her but I don’t know how to do more than just be there.
Oh my, I’ve had those doctor appointments before, yuck. In fact, the doctor who referred me for the sleep study was a major league fat hater, she was just awful.
(Major aside, my GP at the time said she couldn’t refer me directly for the sleep study and sent me to a neurologist, by the time I got all the fat hatred from her, I was bound and determined to get a sleep study, so her hatred wasn’t going to scare me off. That said, I totally understand your gf’s perspective and I’ve totally been there.)
I think picking out a doctor has gotten a little easier than it used to be just because of online reviews. There’s also a list floating around the internets somewhere of fat friendly doctors, but I don’t know how current or accurate it is.
Even though the doctor who referred me was awful, everyone at the sleep center I dealt with was super nice, if that helps at all.
I understand all you can do is just be there. I also know that your girlfriend isn’t on this site, but she ever looks here or wants more information, I’m happy to communicate with her. A lot of people here would be.
It’s really hard to go through life being told that your body is bad, especially when it’s interpreted as you’re bad and it’s easy to get swallowed up in the guilt and shame of it all. Fortunately, it’s possible to heal and get past those feelings.
I can’t even remember what got me started reading FA stuff, I think it started with Fatshion stuff and it snowballed from there. Maybe the same thing can happen for your girlfriend.
I wish her luck finding a doctor.
Kevin,
First of all, welcome to Fierce Fatties! I’ve read your comments and I’m thrilled that you’re here, both for yourself and your wife. I hope someday she’ll join us here too, but in the meantime, stock up on knowledge and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
You’re absolutely right about your lack of thin privilege experience, even as a fat man. I have a BMI of 40 (BMI is okay to mention, BTW, as a way of indicating what size of fatty you are… just don’t use it to base your, or others’, worth). Men get a free pass for being fat, plus, like you, I never have trouble fitting places (occassionally booths, but not very often). Like you, as well, my wife is very large and has trouble with all the issues you mentioned, so I understand only getting thin privilege by witnessing her experiences.
As far as your wife’s health, it’s perfectly okay to be concerned and it’s awesome that you’re looking into it more. Do yourself a favor and buy, or borrow, a copy of “Health at Every Size” by Dr. Linda Bacon. When we recommend health to our readers, we recommend the HAES approach because it is based on solid evidence and a reasonable approach to health. Basically, eat healthy and move your body, and let your body do what it wants in response. If you lose weight, great! If you gain weight, great! If you’ve made healthy choices, then you’re body knows what to do.
With that being said, if your wife is very large (like mine), then land-based exercise can be challenging at times (depends on the person). My wife always hated land-based exercise, so when we got a membership to the Y, she looked into water aerobics. She was nervous at first (swimsuits and all), but quickly grew comfortable with it and now loves it. She wanted to know more about how effective it actually is and whether it’s actually beneficial to your health, so I contacted an expert on it and interviewed her. You can listen to it here and you can listen to my interview with my wife about her experience with water aerobics here.
Mulberry’s right, exercise can make a person more insulin sensitive naturally, and it’s best to start now, while her numbers are okay. Genetics is the strongest risk factor for diabetes, so she should be aware of her options now so she can make the best decision for her body.
Anyway, thanks again for commenting. I read all the comments, so feel free to comment on anything in our archive. Someone will respond.
Peace,
Shannon
I’m sorry to hear that fat people feel “fair game for hostile comments” but please let me explain something to you.
As a society, humans try to increase our prosperity, lifespan, and fertility - as a natural evolution mechanism to support our population/genetics.
Because of this, people who are too fat, too thin, have bad hygiene, are poorly motivated, lazy, etc, are mocked! This is not because people ‘hate’ you, it’s because subconciously they want you to improve yourself for evolutionary success. Naturally, fat people are less desirable mates - fitness is a term in biology used to describe reproductive success, a fit mate is better able to survive and reproduce. Someone who is obese could not survive in a forest, could not defend themselves or even run away!
And this is not fat people shaming, this is applies to everything that reduces evolutionary success.
for example “I can wear form fitting clothing without people mocking me (at least within earshot)”
I can recall countless times when I would wear a tank top or fitting shirt (this author is male) and people would yell “You know you’re supposed to have muscles to wear that!” “Eat a burger or something!” “PUT ON A SHIRT!”
I was too skinny. I wasn’t anorexic, I even thought I ate a lot of food! I figured I had skinny genetics, and I couldn’t help it (sound similar?).
Acne sufferers can relate to this as well, and acne is definitively more difficult to control than your weight.
Being too skinny, too fat, having acne, having thin hair, are ALL things people believe they are helpless, born with it as much as they are born with brown eyes - that we should accept people for the way they are.
But in reality, these are things people CAN change, and all of them have the exact same cure
Eat properly - a healthy meal is a T bone steak with a side of spinach satueed in butter and some steamed broccoli. A salad from Wendy’s with iceberg lettuce, fried chicken, crutons and salad dressing is not
Exercise - Anyone can get fit, for 95% of people this includes at LEAST an hour a day of intensive exercise. An example of this would be doing heavy weight lifting 3 days a week and a dance class the other 3 or 4 days. Going to the gym and pissing around on the eliptical for 20 minutes is not intensive exercises. If you don’t need a towel because so much sweat is dripping off your face its getting in your eyes, you’re doing it wrong.
And yes eating healthy and exercising can help wierd things like thin hair or acne. I used to have extremely thin hair, my whole family does. I started eating considerably more protein and now I get compliments for how thick and huge my hair is. the last aspect is hygiene, because someone who looks unkempt is at large for mockery as much as any ‘weight disadvantaged’ person.
By taking care of those three things, society will ‘accept’ you.
Now please, for the love of all things right, stop relating the ‘struggles’ of being fat to true discrimination - things that caused slavery and the holocaust. We needed to accept that non-caucasions are people, we needed to accept that women are people, we do not need to accept that fat people are advantaged in anyway.
PS Marilyn Monroe weighed about 118lbs and had a 22″ waist.
You have no idea what you’re talking about, so fuck off and go away. It’s never right to bully anyone. Asshole.
Sage, all we want is for people like you to take personal responsibility. Does anyone hold a gun to most people’s heads to force them to verbally (and sometimes physically) abuse fat people? In general they don’t, so all you need is a little willpower when it comes to treating fat people with basic human respect. Don’t use others as an excuse (“well, THEY mock ME”); it does you no credit to use the ignorant as role models.
Regarding discrimination, I’ve noticed a fair amount of people lining up to get themselves surgically eviscerated in order to escape what you say isn’t true discrimination.
Speaking of biological fitness - how many children did Marilyn Monroe (who weighed about 118 pounds and had a 22″ waist) have?
Sage,
Just so you know, I sent an email to sage@hotmail.com and it bounced back. Since you don’t have the courage to substantiate your opinions with a real email, your comments will not be welcome here.
Besides that, your understanding of evolution is remedial at best. Ever heard of the Venus of Willendorf, or the countless like her? You can see some in erylin’s author badge on the side of this blog. They’re fat fertility icons. Do you know why fat women have been worshiped for much of civilization? Because fat was a sign of health in a time when food was scarce and childbirth was the greatest threat to a woman’s health. In such an environment, a fat woman fared much better, both in terms of fertility, survival and child-birth.
And if you think Marilyn Monroe’s waist proves your point, you need to read up on 19th century sex symbol Lillian Russell, a 200-pound actress.
Finally, if fuckability determined evolution, then how the hell did you get here?
Peace,
Shannon
I think Sarge´s comment is quite well written and raises some valid points. Everyone has to deal with judgement, and wearing form fitting clothes will get you comments and whispers no matter how much you weigh. Its all about having the confidence to wear these things. But thats a whole other topic and has nothing t do with this discussion.
In my opinion, Sarge simply explained how the world and our society
works. Everyone has to adapt, it´s always been like this. But again, I´m going off topic.
What I really wanted to say ist that 90% of the time, like it says here in the comments, being “fat” is a choice (the other 10% are medical conditions etc.). And thats perfectly fine with me. If someone is happy with his weight and size, why not. Its yur life, enjoy it the way you like. But don´t act like the center of the universe. Your not by law entitled to plus size closing or airplane flights, these are merely a service offered by different businesses.
Also, as I already mentioned: everyone gets judged. EVERYONE. Stop feeling like the special victims of society, but instead just stand above these people who clearly are not worth your time, just like everyone else tries to do.
Here is lessons that I have learned early in life and that I think of as one of the most important things life has tought me:
If your looking for the cause of the problem, always start by looking to yourself.
Its easy to blame problems on others, its fast, easy, efficient and you have instant relief, that fantastic feeling of “its not my fault I´m where I am right now”. But most of the time, exactly this is the case. To assume someone didn´t hold the door open for you because you were larger at that point in life ist just seems ridiculous to me. When was the last time you held the door open for someone? Exactly.
For me, “thin privilege” falls under the category of “first world problems”.
Generating problems where there are no real problems.
This is clearly no case of true discrimination, as Sage already said. A person who was born with a certain skin color and is therefore discriminated can do absolutely nothing to change his skin color. They can´t get even a little lighter, darker, more purple or green or any other color. They have to deal with it. But most fat people can change. I´M NOT SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD!!! If one wants to stay fat and is happy with his bodyweight, perfect! I´m happy for you. I´m just saying it is an option to change. If your really wanted to, you could. But if you decide not to, then don´t make other peple feel bad because they made a different choice than the one you
made.
English is not my first language, I hope this is understandable anyway. Have a wonderful day!
I hope that was somewhat understandable, English isn´t my first language.
Your English is excellent, actually, but your viewpoint is wrong in my opinion. Though thank you for putting it marginally more respectfully than the first idiot.
Being fat is not always a choice, and I’d be happy to link you to some scientific studies (from real, respected think tanks, not some fly by night operations) which show that weight is a whole lot more than just calories in, calories out. That’s a myth that really needs to go away.
So many people come by and say something to the effect of “Fat is a choice X% of the time” where X is a random number of nines with a decimal point somewhere to keep it below 100%. Can you cite some vaguely reputable source to tell us where you got your figures?
And yes, I do hold tthe door open for people and thank others when they hold the door open for me. What was your point?
I sort of wonder where these people come from. They always pop up, comment on an old article, and then attempt to lecture the readers here about some topic they are more certainly self-”educated” on. Are they fitness quacks that sit around googling things they don’t agree with, and the post shows up? Do they hear about this website, and then search around finding the article that bothers them the most, to argue with?
I’m glad you asked, Kala. I’m not sure where Sage found this post, but not long after I responded, we got quite a few clicks from 4chan, so I believe that’s where this most recent troll-stream stems from.
Peace,
Shannon
I hope you die in a fire. What the fuck business is it of yours what anyone else does with their life? Your home life must be so miserable, that you come to a random site and start casting aspersions on people you’ve never met. Do you treat your spouse that way? Kids? I sure as hell hope not, otherwise you’re a child abuser and a worthless fuckwad.
It’s people like you that make me lose faith in humanity, if I ever had any to begin with. You take a safe space, a nonjudgmental space, and cast stones into it when you’ve clearly got some issues of your own. Go shoot yourself in the head. PLEASE. There’d be one less shitbag spouting worthless drivel.
No place is safe when you’re a ticking time bomb of heat disease.
These troll guys are SUCH whiners, aren’t they? And then he ignores all the good advice you give him, CC. I’ll bet he’s terrified of his former fat self coming back to haunt him.
Oh, and Lillian - BMI 27-28 is the best, if you put any stock in BMI. The official BMI categories are set too low.
I was making the point that weight maintenance might be a choice for some, but it’s my choice to make. I think it’s a healthy choice not to fight my natural weight. Some people might think it’s worth all that effort to be twenty pounds thinner.
I like not feeling guilty for eating ice cream if I want ice cream, not that I want it that often. I bought it two days ago and it’s sitting in my freezer unopened. It could sit there two weeks or I could open it tonight. Because I’m not restraining my eating, I can eat as much or as little as I want.
I’m not a walking heart attack. My blood pressure, cholesterol and all other numbers are excellent.
No place is safe when you’re a ticking time bomb of illiteracy. I’ll take my chances with heat disease, thanks.
Peace,
Shannon
Heat disease? Is that the dfever I spread to others because I’m so damn hot? O yeah. I got heat disease.
I am not entirely sure what heat disease is…
Are we making excuses for the trolls, and blaming the blog for encouraging the trolls? No, really, I have no idea what you’re trying to say. It’s like a collection of fat-hate buzzwords.
Hey, mind if I make a suggestion? Instead of c0ming up with some stock anti-fat response like a sheep, which, I know, originality must be hard for a 4channer, maybe you could think about what you’re posting. You might come up with something that… makes sense? You never know, unless you try.