Let It Out
One of our regulars requested an area where people could vent about issues that affect us as fatties, as people, as frustrated bystanders. So, consider this the open thread to end all open threads.
Got an issue?
Drop it in below.
Rip it up.
Free your mind.
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I found your comment on a HuffPo article about the Victoria’s Secret skeleton ad. I was really happy to find a fat acceptance blogger who was accepting of all body types.
I run a blog, Fuck Yeah Skinny Chicks, which is a self esteem blog geared towards thin girls who don’t feel good about their thinness (I’m sure you’re aware that girls of all shapes and sizes are rarely accepting of their bodies!) I’ve tried to reach out to fat acceptance bloggers in the spirit of body acceptance but I’ve been met with a lot of rejection and even rudeness. As a thin woman, I feel excluded from the body acceptance movement even though a lot of my characteristics don’t fit the media ideal: I don’t have big boobs, I’m not blonde or white, etc.
So like I said, I’m really happy to find a fat acceptance blogger who is willing to include thin woman as well and defend them when people put them down as anorexic or unattractive. Thanks for being awesome and keep it up!
FYSC,
Welcome. I glanced through your site to make sure you were on the level and I liked what I saw. I don’t know a lot about what naturally thin people go through, but I do believe that genetics plays a powerful role in determining our size and shape. So, I understand that people make assumptions at both ends of the spectrum and so long as you are promoting health and not that other crap, then you’re welcome here as an ally. If you’d ever like to submit a guest post, feel free to contact me at atchka@hotmail.com. We’ll be happy to collaborate.
Peace,
Shannon
FYSC -
I’m really sorry that other body positive or fat acceptance websites have made you feel unwelcome. Intolerance begets intolerance. And I’d like to believe that intolerance is something we are working hard NOT to propitiate here on FFF.
For myself, I want a body diverse perspective for the world and that includes naturally thin. So, I’m thrilled to see your comment and I desperately hope that FFF continues in a vein that makes you feel welcome.
Eliz
Thanks, Eliz, that means a lot!
I’ll add FFF to my Google Reader and keep up to date with you guys.
Have you seen the cover of the Lane Bryant magalog?! It shows partially clad plus-sized women. They’re getting so many complaints because people don’t think fat naked women can be sexy. Check out their Facebook page
Hi folks:
I want to explore this feed but I’m one of those people that really does need a safe space, trigger warnings, and all that jazz due to my very lengthy, nasty history with anorexia nervosa. Which of the 8 feeds would be the most appropriate? Thanks!
Welcome Jerome. Try the Fat Acceptance Feed. It’s diet-talk free and follows the standard trigger warning protocol.
Welcome. I hope the rating system on FFFs has worked well for your situation.
Peace,
Shannon
Hi Jerome,
I’m sorry if I’m talking out of turn, but if you’re looking for safe, fat-positive spaces, I’d like to put in a plug for one of my favorite blogs, Shakesville.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/
It’s not a Fat Acceptance site per se, but a progressive, feminist blog, with a lot of great fat-positive content. Depending on your political orientation, it might not be your cup of tea at all.
However, it’s pretty much the ultimate on-line “safe space;” in addition to watching for diet talk, the moderators are careful to weed out racism, classism, homophobia, ableism, and any other such wankery.
Of course, I’m recommending Shakesville in ADDITION to the FA feed. ^_^
Simone, there are no turns. Or there are infinite turns. Whichever you prefer.
Peace,
Shannon
I love the image for Fierce Tweets. It makes me laugh every time I see it, lol.
Thanks. I’m thinking I might change it from time to time to different fierce stereotypes. It’s a pretty fun image to play with.
Peace,
Shannon
So, I ran across this sentence in a thread about Jamie Oliver’s Food Revolution, and it was so…striking that I felt the need to share it with you.
“If Americans just won’t accept healthy criticism for their own good then just keep on drowning in a sea of fat!!!”
-Person on Inter Net
Oh my God you guys!!! Any minute now, we are going to merge into a collective sea of fat!!! And then we will flood America!!!
Just thought I’d give you a heads up.
I saw that interview too, and I have to say that Jamie Oliver USED to be one of my fav tv chefs, now I wouldn’t watch him if you paid me. I have also ditched Cloris Leechman for her anti-fat comments, apparently we make her sick. From the looks of it, bitch needs a twinkie stuffed somewhere, take your pick. Might need to stuff a Ding Dong up Oliver also.
It’s been a really bad day, thanks for the place to vent.
Ya know, we should make a Fatty Power that asks for fat-hating celebs, because you know there’s plenty to pick from. You know, just so we know whose work to avoid.
Peace,
Shannon
I had to stop liking Anthony Bourdain AND Alton Brown, the hosts of two of my all time favorite shows (No Reservations and Good Eats) because they both had some anti-fat bull that they spouted. Bourdain spouted it, apparently, on his show with Ted Nugent and it’s on youtube. I wouldn’t recommend checking it out unless you have sanity points to spare.
at least bourdain admits he’s a preternaturally skinny fuck who smokes 2 packs a day…his whole stchick is fuck health its good. he admits to a love affair of epic proportions to all things pig.
ths alton brown i feel betrayed by. he was borderline fatty. now he looks like an old fashioned undertaker. ITs PAINFUL for me not to watch good eats…i like learning the science behind the food. but i hate him now. bourdain i can forgive he know he doesnt live like a saint. not alton….do you think i cant watch iron chef now? or is that enough of a collaberative effort?
I’m fat. And I’ve been told over and over by my city’s public health professionals that my children are fat (my son is labeled obese). Here’s fairly recent pictures of them: http://stampoff.blogspot.com/2010/07/blog-post.html
I’m wondering which of the blog feeds (cause damn there’s a LOT of blogs!!) would be best for me to start with.
I’m tired of hearing how my healthy, active, well fed (on healthy foods) kids are fat and obese but I don’t feel right telling these professionals to shove it, even politely. I also have a two month old who is strictly breast fed and I get the stink eye when we have a check up and she’s in the 97 percentile for weight (even though she’s also in the 90th percentile for height).
It would be nice to be able to share my frustrations (even if only in comments to blog posts) with other bloggers who are perhaps parents of small children. Tips on how to remain calm and still get my message of “my kids are healthy and I don’t appreciate you labeling them” across.
Ruth-
I’m trying to think of possible blogs that focus on family but I could only come up with two that KINDA fit what your looking for. Well Rounded Mama primarily deals with the intersection between birth politics and body politics but she also talks about parenting. And then there’s Family Feeding Dynamics which focuses on intuitive eating for kids.
If talking about our feeds, I would tell anyone new to start off with the Fat Acceptance subfeed. And then possibly branch out to the other subfeeds once you’ve got a feel for the basics of the movement.
Ruth, thank you for your comment. I will talk to the team about doing a post on this, discussing how parents should handle a situation like this. We’ll be in touch.
Peace,
Shannon
I know I’m late to this party, but…I highly recommend the Family Feeding Dynamics blog. Katja Rowell MD is FABULOUS and has a lot of posts about talking to your doctor’s pediatrician and other professionals that interact with your children (teachers, daycare workers, etc) who feel the need to tell kids how to eat. I think Katja has become more radical in the past few months as she hears more and more stories from parents of big kids and parents of small kids (apparently we’re all supposed to be “normal”).
I just found this site via an article/comment war on HuffPost, and was impressed by Shannon’s comments. While I don’t traditionally subscribe to a lot of the so-called “traditional” fat acceptance blogs, and have limited patience for political correctness, I am also on the lookout for safe spaces. While I would never, ever want to make someone upset, I also don’t want to spend time on a blog that wraps everything in New-Age speak and refuses honesty. I’d love to find a space that stands on the fine line between reassurance and tactful honesty, and I’m hoping this could be it.
CC,
Welcome, glad you’ve joined us. We like to think we are that middle ground between radical Fat Acceptance and mainstream society. We share many of the beliefs of our FA counterparts, but we welcome questions, 101 confusion, and challenges to our beliefs. We try to explore the issues as honestly and openly as we are capable of, and ask for help if our understanding is limited.
So, dive in, look around and I hope we can be that safe/non-PC space you’re looking for.
Peace,
Shannon
This may be the wrong place to ask, but does anyone know what has happened to the Zaftig Chicks? Their blog was awesome and I really miss it. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi J,
This is the right place to ask (as there’s nothing off limits here). What happened to the Zaftig Chicks is a complete mystery. I tried emailing them, but have not heard back. I have heard rumors, however, that they spontaneously combusted in a fabulous display of feather boas and body glitter.
Peace,
Shannon
I was wondering what happened to them too. Guess we know what all that glitter on the floor was now.
My hunch is that they weren’t getting nearly the traffic as before, but who knows. Maybe they just got tired of the constant need for submissions or maybe their anonymity was breached. Who knows. I hope they come back, though.
Peace,
Shannon
Their blog is right here:
http://zaftigchicks.wordpress.com/
Given all the HuffPo-related activism on this site, I thought I’d share…
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/09/29/why-are-there-naked-ladies-at-the-huffington-post/
Simone,
Interesting video. I’m going to email you so we can speak privately.
Peace,
Shannon
My name is Megan, and I’ve been overweight since puberty. I currently have a youtube channel where I post videos of myself singing and playing the piano, but I have stopped making videos lately, because of all the horrible comments I get about my weight. It upset me so much to see the horrible things people said to me that I thought about taking my youtube page down. I was pressured by my family and friends to turn off the comments function so that no one could bother me anymore, but I feel as if the fat-haters have won.
I have been wanting to make a video directed at the fat-haters in retaliation, to tell them that I won’t stand for the public humiliation I’ve been put through, but everyone tells me to just keep my mouth shut and “don’t feed the trolls.” Still, I feel as if the fat-haters have won.
What should I do? Should I stand up for myself, or should I just put my tail between my legs and walk away?
Megan
MuEpsilonGamma,
Everybody has their own tolerance level for trolls. I have a fairly high tolerance level and can tolerate their attention-getting antics fairly well. But I’m a guy and as such I receive less pressure from society in general about my weight. Women face more intense criticism (especially from men), so it’s not surprising that so many fat women cannot cope with such intense hatred.
What I would recommend is that you continue posting your videos, but censor your comments. Delete anything that is even remotely hateful. Do your thing and be proud, but know that there will always be some inconsiderate jackass who will try to take you down a notch. That person is probably just projecting their own self-loathing onto you. It’s easier to hate others than to hate yourself sometimes, ya know?
So, delete what you don’t like. You don’t HAVE to allow their comments to stay. I would post a video explaining your new policy, explaining why, and give the trolls the finger. What are they gonna do?
And if all else fails, you can call on me and I’ll be glad to hand the trolls their ass on a platter.
Hold onto your pride and keep being yourself. Do not let strangers destroy your confidence. You have a gorgeous voice and it would be a shame if you let some random asshole prevent you from sharing that with the world.
Good luck!
Peace,
Shannon
Hi, Megan - was just peering through this thread, and am watching some of your videos. Your voice is gorgeous! Keep posting videos, please!
Wow, I may actually have beaten a lot of people in the Nonsensical Bullsh#t Olympics today … I got called a racist because I said I promoted Fat Acceptance. Apparently in some crazy bitch’s mind, fat acceptance equals trying to get black women to be fat and curvy so they won’t be as powerful as all “them skinny white women” and I ought to stop “trying to keep the sisters down.”
Then I got yelled at on a fairly well known feminist website because I apparently “hadn’t been educated enough” to post and was “lacking in my feminist 101 knowledge” and that was offensive … where in the f*ck am I supposed to LEARN this “feminist 101 knowledge” if not on feminist websites?
God bless FFF for being patient with the newbies … I’ve had enough of snotty, my-way-or-the-highway, myopic internet dictators for the rest of my life! What a day!
CC,
I completely understand. The whole “come back when you’re sufficiently educated” is such bullshit. It just reminds of the “get back in the kitchen” argument against feminism. Really? You only want educated people in your cause? Well, when I am sufficiently educated, what makes you think I want any part of your world?
Ugh.
And that is pretty fucked up about being a racist in FA. I’ve heard people complain that FA doesn’t take into account the higher obesity rates in minority groups, but that’s not because minorities are somehow inherently fatter… it’s that minorities are more likely to be poor and poverty and obesity are strongly related. That doesn’t mean you treat fat minorities differently, it means our economic system is broken and THAT needs fixing.
Well, hang in there. It’s not easy being right.
Peace,
Shannon
Just wanted to drop a quick note.
I just found your blog, and I am thrilled. I am a charmingly chubby fatchick in Chicago.
Everything written here is carbon copy in my brain.
My blog? A fun flitty misanthropic rant, mostly, but it’s no secret that I’m a fabulous fatty.
Thank you thank you for this wonderful place.
Keep up the good work.
And let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. From what I’ve read so far, you are so totally my kind of people.
Hello, my name is Rebecca. I’ve been reading FFF for a while but haven’t posted, but this whole place has been excellent for my self-esteem. I’ve hated myself a lot less in the few months that I’ve been reading it, and I’ve actually started standing up in real life when I see discrimination happening (not easy for a person with social phobia who is on the autism spectrum).
I just thought I’d bring this issue up, as it’s something that shocked me at the time and is still alarming to me now:
When I was eleven, I was diagnosed with severe ulcerative colitis. The only medication that worked at all to treat it was Prednisone, which made me gain weight like crazy. The doctors didn’t like me gaining weight so they kept taking me off of it, at which point I would become extremely ill, lose all the weight I had gained (once I lost seventy pounds in three months) and have to be put back on it. All this yoyoing screwed up my metabolism tremendously, which is a different story. I had a complete colectomy at 13, so it isn’t an issue now.
What was so shocking was that, when I was off the medication and usually so extremely ill that I couldn’t stand up on my own (I’d black out), people always complemented me on my appearance. “You’ve lost weight! You look so good!” Never mind the fact that if I had continued like that, I would (no doubt) have died. When I was on Prednisone and gaining weight but could otherwise function somewhat like a normal person (being able to walk is awesome), I got nothing but criticism and people talking about how it was “too bad” that the doctors put me on a medication that made me gain weight.
Bah! That was not supposed to be a reply to the last post.
Hi Rebecca,
Thanks for delurking.
I can’t tell you how touched I am by your comments. Although we hadn’t set out to explicitly improve the self-esteem of our readers, I’m glad that it has been a welcome side effect of our efforts. That is awesome that you are standing up against discrimination in spite of your social phobia. I know it’s not easy, but you are doing some powerful advocacy by speaking up and I hope that you appreciate the impact you are having on our culture by doing so.
Regarding Prednisone… yup, yup, yup. The weight gain side effect is well-known and it’s sad that your doctors considered the weight gain a worse state than the successful treatment of colitis. Did you even have problems with blood pressure, insulin resistance or any other weight-related issues or did they just say, “Getting fat is bad, we must stop it”? Because it reminds me of Carrie Fisher’s blog post (the one that inspired me to make her the patron saint of FFFs) about how her anti-depressants made her gain weight, but that her mental health was more important to her than looking like Princess Leia.
I mean, if the only side effect was weight gain, then fuck it, take the Prednisone and treat the colitis, ya know? Seems pretty straight-forward to me.
And I think your experience with the compliments while ill is a great illustration of all that is wrong with this country’s perception of weight and health. Adhering to the social norm of thin = beauty is more important to people than true health, not to mention the fact that we still believe that thin = healthy. It’s a twisted view and one we hope to correct.
Thanks for sharing and I hope you continue to grow stronger and more resolute in your understanding of health and your appreciation of your body.
Peace,
Shannon
(Posting this as a response to my own post so the message doesn’t get too thin because I hate that)
It seems inevitable that discovering a website in which people are generally of the opinion that people like you are actually people would boost your self-esteem.
I don’t actually remember all too well if there were other effects than simple weight gain; it’s been about eight years, and I was young at the time. There was no question whatsoever that any ill effects from taking it would be vastly overshadowed by the effects of not taking it and letting the disease go without any effective treatments. It is a nasty drug, though, and I had to take some truly massive doses of it, so it’s likely that even if they didn’t, some problems would have arisen. In retrospect, I should have just had the surgery earlier, but it was hard to tell back then.
I don’t think I’ll ever really appreciate my body, for the reasons that this post covers; I’ve been dealing with chronic illness since childhood, and I really wish I didn’t have to. But I daresay I’ll continue working on not hating myself because of it.
Anyway, what I originally posted to mention was this. I’m unsure if anyone here is aware of this particular issue yet, but reading this article rather infuriated me.
Apparently that second link only works if you remove the final slash from it, after .html. Sorry about that.
Rebecca,
I’m sick to death of these kind of stories. Ugh. It’s become so common for schools to do this that it’s almost becoming mundane at this point. But we will continue to fight against it.
Good luck with staying body positive. I know it’s not easy when it feels like your body betrays your health, but I bet your body is still capable of amazing things.
Peace,
Shannon
Welcome to Fierce Fatties, Von. I’m glad you found us. I’ll be sure to check out your blog.
As for help, feel free to comment because dialogue makes our community stronger, and if you ever want to do more you can always join us.
Peace,
Shannon
So, I just saw on the news that they’ve lowered the BMI cut-offs for lap band surgery. Apparently, they’re now recommending it for people who aren’t even obese!
How does that make you guys feel?
I’m sure it’s all about health and it has absolutely nothing to do with the company who makes lap bands wanting more money. Not at all.
You mean I might get thr WLS I always wanted? Goody goody! *sarcasm off*
It’s only a matter of time, though.
The only good I can see coming of that is that more people will find out it’s not the miracle cure it’s touted to be and eventually it will go the way of the dodo. Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. I wish that would happen to all WLS, that it would be banned. It does so much more harm than good - if it were a drug, it would have been pulled from the market years ago.
I know, right?
Simone,
Did you notice these recommendations came out the day after that study saying that all fatties will day tomorrow? Planning a post on it this week. Also, planning on a large-scale crowd-sourcing review of the meta-analysis this study was based on. Also, major conflict of interest involved in the BMI reduction for lap band. The corporate/government greed on this one is amazing.
Peace,
Shannon
Nope, didn’t know all that. Fascinating.
I just caught like twenty seconds of the news story while in the airport. But what I saw was enough to make me think “Geez, FFF will have a field day with this…”
I have a story to tell you all that I can’t tell anyone else. I have to get this out without any more fear of judgement.
I began to gain weight when I was put on anti-depressants at age 6. First it was slow, then it was so fast that I acquired stretch marks that I still can’t get rid of. Needless to say, weight struggles have become a part of my life, and have had a very negative affect on my self-esteem.
I have wished so much that I could be one of the confident overweight people that I see around me. They seem so happy, like their weight isn’t even an issue in their lives. They are able to find mates, regardless of their appearance. Why do they have such high levels of self-esteem? I often wonder if my low self-esteem is caused by my weight or by my being bullied as a child, or even a combination of both.
The point I was getting to is that my horrible body image has caused me to not only develop social phobia, but also to hate myself to the point of several suicide attempts and frequent self-mutilation. I thought that I could ease my depression if I joined a small choir at my school. For the most part, it worked, but there was always the one lingering issue in the back of my mind that taints the experience even to this day: I am the only overweight person in that group.
No one seems to look down on me for it. I don’t know if they even notice. I’m usually able to hide my terrible lack of self-confidence and inferiority complex from the rest of the group, but there are times when I can’t. Just the other night, we all went on a little trip. Many of the members could not come, and many more left at the end of the first night because of one reason or the other. It was foolish of me, but I stayed. At the end of the night, it was only me, and six boys.
Almost as soon as the rest of the females had left, these boys began talking about them. They went on about how “hot” and “fine” the other girls were. They talked about the things they would do to them. I’ll give it to them that they were very drunk, and that boys will be boys, but it’s like they didn’t even realize I was standing right there. I found myself getting angry, depressed, self-conscious, everything at once. I asked them to stop and talk about something else, but they laughed it off as drunken antics. Eventually, I ran away, but my emotions overwhelmed me and I collapsed into a sobbing mess on the street.
Now, these boys are my friends. Of course they immediately followed after me and comforted me. They passed off my hysterical fit as just being drunk. Which I was, but they had no idea what was really going on. After a few minutes, they walked me back to camp, where they went right back to blabbering on about how they wanted to “eiffel tower” with the other girls. Once again, I asked them to talk about something else, once again, they laughed, and once again, I left camp.
On the way to the building where the bathrooms were, I called one of the girls in the group who was one of my closest friends. I sobbed into the phone about the things they were saying about every other girl except for me. I spilled my guts about how I felt about being the only “ugly, defective chick that no one wants.” Maybe it’s selfish to just want people to think I’m pretty. Maybe it’s stupid to draw my self-worth from what men think of my appearance. Maybe my expectations were too high for this group. I thought these boys were better than that, and I probably shouldn’t have.
I’m going to pretend like that night never happened. As far as I am concerned, it was just a bad nightmare. Everyone was so intoxicated that I’m sure they don’t remember it anyway, and I’m just fine with that. But I can’t stop thinking about it. I was so hurt, so… heartbroken, when I realized just how I measure up to the other girls in our group from our very own boys. Boys that I don’t particularly have any romantic feelings for, but if they were to ask me out, I would say yes to. All the horrible insecurities I had tried to suppress for the entire semester came flooding out in one of my worst breakdowns in quite awhile. Let us all be thankful I had no access to any sharp objects.
I have tried to talk to people about this. All the responses I got were “you shouldn’t have stayed. You should have gone home with the other girls.” “You shouldn’t have drank so much. It’s not ladylike to get drunk with a bunch of boys — then you just become one of the guys.” “Aren’t you bipolar? Shouldn’t you not even drink at all?” “You can’t expect them not to talk about girls, even if you’re right there.” And, “Maybe it’s not your weight. Maybe it’s your panicked breakdowns.” I was not hearing anything I wanted to hear. I know that I am less attractive than the other girls because I am overweight and they are not. And you know why? Because I stood there and listened to them talk just long enough to hear just how their little game worked. They would go down the list of the girls in the group, and discuss whether or not they would do that girl. They got to another friend of mine, who is quite tall and wears a size 8. I heard one guy say “Not unless she got in better shape.” I couldn’t believe my ears. That was the standard we were held to. I had to get even skinnier than that if I ever wanted to be seen as attractive by these boys. So yes, it was absolutely all about my weight, not my “panicked breakdowns” which only happen when I’m drunk or off my meds or ALMOST NEVER.
How do you do it? How do you learn to love yourself for who you are? How do you learn to accept your appearance and embrace it? How do you stop caring about what other people think and say about you? This is an anonymous cry for help. My dismal body image is ruining my life!
I’m so sorry you were hurt by your friends’ drunken and chauvinistic talk. You are a valuable person who deserves accepting friends and I hope you keep looking for them. I think I was one of the most overweight girls in both high school and college and I coped by concentrating on my studies and working. Eventually, I realized who my true friends were and I got through it. Somewhere along the way, the self-esteem improved. Perhaps the message is “fake it till you make it”. Definitely keep reading FA blogs & I recommend the Museum of Fat Love, too.
I’m so sorry you were so hurt by the callousness of others. I really feel for you and know what you are going through. I not sure I have any real solid answers to your questions, though -
The counselor in me wants to encourage you to find someone to talk to… someone on a professional level, someone you can trust to listen (and listen well!) and help you sort through these emotional times. If money is an issue, find someone in your local mental health clinic, school, Catholic Charities organization, or something similar.
It may sound like a cliche` but only you can change the way you feel about yourself.
Other people have their own judgments (right or wrong) and opinions (right or wrong) about you, and there is little you can do about them or their perceptions.
But as Karen said, in the meantime, Fake It until you Make It.
Because even if it’s merely the ‘appearance’ of confidence you send out, (while not quite feeling it inside yet) that’s what people will pick up on.
Pretend you’re an exceptional actress… able to pull off any part that’s thrown her way! Act the part you want to be. Here’s a big (((((hug))))) for you as well!
“Beauty” means many things to many people; You are a beautiful human being with feelings and desires and hopes and dreams. You deserve respect, and love, and happiness. Believe that. Expect that. Demand that.
Hey, I just wrote you probably the longest post in the history of FFFs.
http://fiercefatties.com/2010/12/10/on-midnight
My heart goes out to you and, as I said, if you ever need to talk, you can feel free to email me.
Peace,
Shannon
Oh honey I wish I had your email so I could talk to you. Actually, I wish you were right here in front of me so I could give you a big hug! I have been where you are. There is nothing harder than fighting the darkness in your own head *and* the thoughtlessness of others.
There are things we do not know until we learn about them, unfortunately self-esteem falls under this. When I was younger I believed people when they told me I was bad, I was a freak, I wasn’t lovable or worthy of friendship because I was different. Other people hurt me, so I shut down but I also hurt myself because I had not learned to value myself, and I put too much weight and power in whether others valued me.
I know every experience is unique but I also believe we all have our limit. We all reach a point where we no longer tolerate our lives the way they are and must strive and fight and change and *survive*. You are a survivor. There are people out there who care and people who can help. Most importantly, there is a spark of light inside you that will one day alight, catch flame and shine with an awesome brilliance. I have found mine and I’m working on building and protecting it. You must find yours; others cannot find it for you but we will celebrate it with you. Seek out the people, places and things in life that ‘bring out your shine.’
I wish you the absolute best because that is what you are and deserve.
*If any of this seem overly simplified it is because I had to try and fit a *HUGE* emotion into a politely small space - I could write 100 pages about this and how it made me feel and my own experience with self-esteem. I realized I needed to stick to a shorter note of encouragement, which seemed needed the most.
This isn’t really big enough to rate a blog post, but I need to vent. I went to the surgical consult about having my enlarged thyroid removed, and my weight was brought up as a concern because of anesthesia. I told Dr M (the surgeon) that anesthesia isn’t a problem for me, I’ve had my gallbladder out, a hernia repair, and my stomach stapled and never had any problems with any of that. She then wanted to know why I had asked for a consult with an endocrinologist about my thyroid since my numbers were good. I told her I was concerned about it being enlarged because of a family history with thyroid cancer and other thyroid problems. She said I didn’t have any symptoms of hypothyroidism - never mind that cold weather didn’t use to bother me and now I’m cold all the time, even when the temp in the house is 76 degrees. She said that’s part of aging and my metabolism slowing down (but then turned around and said it’s possible for me to diet and lose weight, it’s calories in/out, and if you burn more calories than you take in, you’ll lose weight)*head desk*. Cognitive dissonance much? She says that my metabolism is slowing down because I’m getting older (no shit Sherlock, what was yer first fucking clue there?) but that it’s still possible to restrict calories and lose weight. I told her no way, been there done that, got the hat/t-shirt/poster/keychain and I ain’t doing it ever again, that my metabolism is so fucked up now from repeated dieting, diet drugs, and WLS that I’m done trying to mess with it any more.
JFC, I didn’t go to see her for a lecture about my weight, I went to see her about whether I needed to have my thyroid removed ASAP or could it wait a while. We finally decided it can wait at least another six months, she’ll order another ultrasound then and we’ll see if my thyroid is getting any bigger or staying the same size. Then we’ll decide if it has to come out.
I’m so sorry, Vesta, that’s awful. I hope everything works out, although it sounds like you’re fit as a fiddle, which is great.
Peace,
Shannon
I’ve recently started to read this blog, and really like it. It’s got a lot of heart. Therefore, I’ve gone back and read most of the older posts from this past year and have wanted to comment on a few of them. I just wonder in this world of “[such-and-such] is SO yesterday” if commenting on a months-old post is really the “done thing”.
On many blogs, I’ve commented on posts that were even a few days old, only to get no response ’cause everyone else has moved on to something newer. Of course no one is obligated to respond, but it’s nice to feel like I’m chatting with people rather than like I’m talking in an empty room.
Sometimes I feel like I have Attention Surfeit Disorder, if there is such a thing.
By the way, my husband and I listened the other day to your awesome interview of the notorious Meme Roth. Great ending, and it really cheered him up.
I don’t know about anyone else here, but I have subscribed to this page by email. I see every new post that goes up here.
This is quickly becoming a favorite page of mine. I love potpourri.
And welcome, MuEpsilonGamma.
Peace,
Shannon
Thanks Mulberry. I’m glad you found us.
I read all comments and will respond to pretty much anything. So, all our posts are always open and I try to respond.
And thanks for the compliment on the MeMe interview. If you enjoyed that, be sure to listen to the Michael Karolchyk one (the Anti-Gym douche). At least MeMe is somewhat intelligent.
Peace,
Shannon
Something that’s really been getting to me is how, as soon as fat bashers get called out on their bullshit, they all seem to immediately play the victim, talking about how it’s ~~SO HORRIBLE~~ that the Political Correctness Police won’t accept them calling fat people “stinking bags of lard” (I saw that one today in the comments of a news article) when it’s really the fat people’s fault and they should stop being so ugly so they don’t get insulted! Why has ~telling the truth~ about these stinky lardbags become so stigmatized? Gosh!
Also, something that drives me nuts: sometimes people say that I may be fat but at least I’m not ~ugly~. Why does it MATTER if I’m ugly or not? Does being genetically endowed with a symmetrical face or something somehow make me a better, more virtuous person? Should people who are widely considered ugly be treated like crap? What if I were ugly by your standards?
End rant. Apologies if I come across as pissy, it’s because I am right now.
Rebecca,
No need to apologize. If you need to piss, this is the place.
But thank you for saying this, actually, because I’m dealing with this presently on Tumblr. There was this pro-ana blog bashing a fat woman, who posted a sexy picture online. Well, this one particular girl, Jayde, wrote this extremely hateful post calling me and others “fucking over the top dramatic cunts” and about the model, Maria, “When will people learn that the only reason this ISN’T beautiful is because SHE’D PROBABLY DIE DURING SEX ANYWAY FROM A MOTHER FUCKING HEART ATTACK.”
The response I gave was pretty measured, I simply corrected her assumptions about health and ignored the obscenity. Then she flooded my ask box calling me a “moronic bitch” and telling me that I misinterpreted her and demanding an apology. She was 17, so I responded with sarcasm and called her a spoiled child and a dumbass. Now I’m getting trolled, which is kinda fun. Haven’t been trolled this intensely before. And stupid trolls are the best.
You just can’t take this part seriously. You can’t. 99% of them wouldn’t say shit in public and if you confront them, they fold like metal chairs or go into an indecipherable, but impotent rage. But not everyone is up for confrontation, so it takes those of us who are capable of confrontation to teach them that it’s not appropriate. We’re kind of like fat hatred land mines. Yeah, you might be able to bully a few insecure people, but one day you’re gonna piss off the wrong fatty.
As for the second part, I think you’re right. A person is a person is a person and attractiveness does not determine value or whether you should respect them. Genetics should not determine your worth.
Now, go do whatever makes you happiest in the world and take a break from letting them get you down. They just aren’t worth the negative time.
Peace,
Shannon
Oho, that’s rich. A pro-ana who may be anorexic herself saying a fat person will die of a heart attack during sex. All hail Jayde, Queen of Denial, making an asp of herself.
Rebecca, fat haters can be the biggest whiners on the planet. They just don’t have the self-control to shut up and it’s always someone else’s fault.
I’m not sure this is the right place for something like this, but I’m starting to get bloody frustrated with the lack of information about fatness and (for lack of a better word) mental illness. I just got diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome, and now I’m wondering about the interplay between some autistic traits and fatness.
For example, it’s common in autistics (especially people with Asperger’s syndrome or high-functioning autism) to have sensory issues where the taste or smell of something triggers a violent reaction - like, I literally will vomit at the smell of beans. I can’t have them in the house. If I can’t even be around beans, I can’t eat them, and doesn’t that limit my eating habits?
I want to see any kind of research on whether these sensory issues or other aspects of autism can affect fatness in people on the spectrum, and I can’t find a damn thing. I know there’s suggestions about a gluten-free diet being helpful, but um, I lack the self-control for that. XD I can’t believe I’m the first person to wonder about this link, damnit!!
Eating -options-, not eating -habits.- *bemoans lack of edit button*
I haven’t seen any research on a link between autism/Asperger’s and fatness either, but Meowser at fat-fu is posting some things she’s come up with on her own. She has Asperger’s and is fat, so that might be something interesting for you to read. You could probably contact her and compare notes too.
http://fatfu.wordpress.com/ <<< is the link for the blog where Meowser is posting, if you're interested.
I’m definitely a bit late to this, but I am a fat person on the autism spectrum (I mentioned it in my introduction post). I actually have some really profound sensory problems. Just from my experience with other people, I don’t think weight and autism spectrum disorders are generally correlated, though health and ASDs may well be. I’ll elaborate on this when I get home, but I need to go catch a bus now.
I had a fairly random question about plus size clothing:
My mother is fairly unable to find clothes that fit her well, as she’s proportioned in a way that I haven’t seen addressed in clothing. She’s my height at 5’7, and probably somewhere over 200lbs. What’s different is though although I’m wearing a size 8/10 pant, her legs are actually significantly thinner than mine, and the majority of her weight is in her abdominal region. So off the top of my head I could say maybe she’s a size M/L on the bottom, but an XXL on top.
Are there any vendors that actually address this kind of sizing issue? I know for her it’s very difficult to find any kind of pants that fit (and flattering is a whole other issue on top of fit). I was thinking maybe it makes more sense for her to just buy maybe maternity pants to get the whole legs/stomach ratio rate, but are there any other options out there other than getting things totally custom?
Thanks
(btw, I lurk around this blog but haven’t posted, in case you were wondering where I came from)
I have that apple shape and I’ve also sewn some of my own clothes (basic level). I’m not sure IF pants can be designed since to fit the waist of an apple -there will be a lot of baggy-ness underneath. What works for me is wearing skirts almost exclusively. Sometimes a pair of slacks with an elastic waist will work - buy a lower size to fit better around the hips, the elastic stretches to fit middle. Or, try men’s dockers or levi’s: there is no hip allowance so may be a better fit. I never tried maternity pants. Even when I was pregnant, I carried low, so what I had fit.
Thanks! I will keep this in mind.
I’m sorry to keep venting here, but I don’t think there’s another space that would understand.
I have a friend who grew up wanting to be an actress, and she developed some frankly fucked-up attitudes about food. She had a bad case of body dysmorphia, and frankly if she didn’t become anorexic I will be stunned. I spoke up when she announced she ‘had’ to lose weight to be an actress, because that was her life’s dream and all that, and she basically told me I didn’t know what I was talking about and how I’d become stuck in a rut by being content to be fat. We made up that quarrel eventually and remained friends, if more distant friends.
She did lose about sixty pounds, and has kept it off for 7 months or so. I (wo)manned up and congratulated her; she was happier and more self-assured. But the whole time, she’s had GI problems, apparently. She just admitted to me today that she’s been diagnosed with IBS, and she suffers constantly from a distended stomach, as well as things like having low blood platelets and constant bloating & stomach pain. She’s scared to death she may have some kind of blood disease or a permanent GI problem.
She wrote in her journal today that basically she’d rather be fat, and flat out said “Don’t do what I did. I didn’t do this for my health, I did this to be pretty and beautiful and loved.”
I’m furious. This is what happens when the diet and fashion industries are allowed to publish their unfiltered poison. This is what happens when the pressure is so immense to fit a cookie-cutter figure, to conform to societal mores even when your genetics don’t support it. I’m glad she’s come to these realizations before I lost her, but I’m so mad that it got this far. I’m also mad at myself for having my first thought be “Man, I hate being right.” That shouldn’t matter. What matters is getting her healthy, even if it’s not at the size 6 she’s starved herself into being.
CC,
I’m glad your friend saw the light, although I wish it were not at the expense of her health. Sadly, I think many people do great damage when they pursue thinness, but that damage is not always as immediate and clear-cut as it is in the case of your friend. I wish her all the best and I hope she is able to resolve her health issues.
Peace,
Shannon
Just need to gripe… on the freaking 15th “Dear Abby” published a column full of the usual fat hating crap… but could she publish even a SINGLE LETTER that doesn’t support the “fat is the most horrible thing to be” view?
The really enraging thing is, the letters were published as an apology to being too soft on fat people in a column from two months ago… her “too soft” was reinforcing that there is an obesity epidemic, but acknowledging that it is more complicated than just a lazy attitude, and that fat people know they’re fat and don’t need to be reminded.
Seriously? THAT is considered being “too soft” on the topic now? Why do I suspect that even if I wait six months she’ll never acknowledge any of the links to more recent scientific information about weight? Oh thats right, because she never effing does… just goes on telling people how distressing it is that fat people exist and aren’t being shamed enough.
Gah.
And I should have kept reading, because I missed the part at the end for where she shills for a “tried and true program for weight loss” — Overeaters Anonymous.
Because of course, she can say it’s “more complicated”, but by that apparently she means that fatties sit around stuffing their f*ing faces all day. Just can’t stop eating, in fact it’s an addiction and needs a twelve step program!
*cue incoherent screaming of rage*
Oh yeah, I read that, and I wrote her a letter telling her she needs to educate herself about the TRUTH of that non-existent “obesity epidemic” and gave her a bunch of links to read. Not that she’ll read them, she’s happier being a fatphobic shill for the weight loss industry. When it comes to Dear Abby and anything to do with fat people, there aren’t enough Sanity Watchers Points to make it worthwhile reading her column.
Yeah you’d think by now I’d have stopped reading her column since most of the time her “advice” falls into three categories - wrong, so obvious that the person writing the letter had to be doing it just to get published because a hamster would know what to do in that situation, and classist/privileged. By which I mean, her entire answer could be rewritten as “Well why don’t you just go to therapy that of course you can afford because who can’t afford several hundred dollar sessions a couple times a week?”
I probably should add her to the discard pile along with all the other stuff I’ve had to stop reading because I just couldn’t take the virulent hateful bile they spread, or the constant cute little “teehee hey ya’ll, fat is like bad and all teehee omg I ate a grain of sugar and now my ass is THE SIZE OF TEXAS teehee I’m so bad!” crap they do. Which really sucked, because a couple of them had good recipes and craft patterns on them.
I’d like to advertise (whore out) this website. I created this post, and I’d just like all of you to see it.
http://www.myyearbook.com/?mysession=bWFnX3d3eWRfY29tbWVudCZ3aWQ9MzcyMDYwMQ==
(apologies for my skanky picture)
I hope you don’t mind me posting here. I am looking for advice on how to help a friend of mine and this seemed like a good place to go. He is very large, and is seriously considering weight loss surgery. Due to stuff I’ve read here and other blogs, I am against him doing this. He already has a strange chronic pain disability that he’s having trouble getting diagnosed and it seems foolish to me for him to pay lots of money for another disability that may not even help with the original one. But I suspect that his real reason for wanting it is not to deal with his physical issues, but so that girls will like him. I have pointed out that it makes no sense to mangle his digestive system in order to have other people like him, but he does not listen to me. And also that he would still be the same person afterward. I have also pointed him to some information about the dangers and complications of weight loss surgery, and again he does not listen.
I am aware that probably nothing I can do will convince him. He has never listened to me before, even though I have been through a lot of the same feelings. It helps to read these blogs, though.
Also, this is my first time commenting here. Yay! I really respect all of you.
Welcome Cayora!
Can you at least persuade your friend to get his chronic pain seen to first? I mean, let’s say he has weight loss surgery and loses lots of weight and the women come flocking around. If he’s in pain, how much can he enjoy them? Let him investigate the pain first; it’s not impossible that treating it might affect his weight one way or the other.
You won’t get far if you try to appeal to common sense “WLS could kill you faster than fat”, but you might get somewhere if you appeal to his ego “get control of your chronic pain, then you can get through surgery better and maybe have the kind of life you want”. It may be that he won’t listen to you anyway, but you can try.
So on Tuesday I moved into a house near my university campus with nine other people, because my commute was killing me (Can’t drive, had to take the bus at 6:50 in the morning, got back home at around 5:30. I have narcolepsy, and was having to sleep on the floor in school libraries). I have serious problems with social phobia and not knowing how the hell to deal with people (whee, Asperger’s!), but it was the only affordable option and I just could not handle the commute anymore, so here I am.
Since then, I have been surviving on a diet consisting almost entirely of sunflower seeds and the box of Special K I have in my room. This is partly because the stress of moving out of my parents’ house for the first time ever and stress always makes me even more reclusive than usual, but there is definitely a large factor here that consists of me thinking “if I ever go down to the kitchen to get something to eat, my housemates will think I’m a pig who never ever stops eating.”
I’m pretty sure that I’ve internalized fat hatred even more than I thought I had. It seems likely that I’m (mis-)handling this situation in a way that the vast majority of fat people wouldn’t, but I’m having a pretty hard time with this.
tl;dr I’m afraid I might be developing an eating disorder or something.
Your fears are perfectly understandable. In your shared house, is there only one refrigerator? Does everyone chip in for food, or do you each buy your own groceries and have your own assigned shelves in the cupboards/refrigerator for storage? If you’re buying your own groceries, you don’t have to worry what anyone thinks about what you’re eating, how much you’re eating, or when you’re eating it - you paid for it, it’s yours to do with as you please.
If everyone is chipping in on the grocery bill for the whole house, you’re still entitled to eat meals. Again, I doubt that everyone has the same schedule, so you’re all probably not cooking one huge communal meal for breakfast, or lunch, or supper and eating those meals together. If everyone has contributed money to the grocery fund and everyone has agreed about what goes on the grocery list, then you can eat whatever’s in the kitchen - you helped pay for it. You know you’re not going to eat it all and I imagine your roommates know the same thing. Unless someone has cooked something and labeled the leftovers as theirs, I would think anything in the refrigerator is fair game, but it wouldn’t hurt to ask everyone else, just to be sure (and let them know how you want your leftovers treated - are they yours alone, or are they fair game for anyone who wants them). These are things that should have been worked out when you all moved in together, but sometimes get overlooked in the rush of getting settled in and starting classes, etc.
I hope this helps
Frustration of the moment:
I was at Sea World yesterday with family and my sister and I were talking. In the conversation, it came out that my step-mother told my sister than I can do better than my GF. Let me make it clear, my step-mother has met my GF once and they didn’t spend a lot of time together. My step-mother doesn’t even KNOW her.
“Kevin can do better,” in this situation, really means that I can get someone thinner. I was so pissed… you have no idea. As if the only way to determine the value of my GF was on her size! It has nothing to do with personality, work ethic, sense of humor, values, or any of the hundreds of other great things. It all boils down to her weight. I could get someone thin… and, of course, someone thin is always going to be better than someone not thin.
I am not close with my step-mother and almost never see her. So it isn’t like her opinion will change anything in my life. But it drove me crazy. I know my step-mother didn’t approve of my ex-GF. My ex was also a fat woman. I’m not a fat-admirer in the normal sense (that I am strictly attracted to bigger women) but I certainly don’t have a problem with it and even like it. I believe there are many other things that are more important in a relationship than weight. Weight and looks can and will change… basing a relationship solely on those is a mistake.
Anyway… weight does not equal value! — Unless you’re talking about gold… and then more is better.
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuup. It doesn’t even matter if the guy is fat, either. Fat women just aren’t supposed to be loved, dammit. Why would you set your standards so low, Kevin? Why? It’s ridiculous and infuriating, and it’s something that the woman picks up on as well (eventually). It’s sad that we can’t just respect love for what it is: a mutual feeling that develops between two people for God-only-knows what reason. Instead, it’s all about picking the “right” person. Fuck that. Just keep on loving her, Kev.
Peace,
Shannon
‘ “Kevin can do better,” in this situation, really means that I can get someone thinner. I was so pissed… you have no idea.’
YES, I DO HAVE AN IDEA.
This has been said about me to a boyfriend or two.
It’s been said about me back when I weighed 160 pounds (I am of medium height.)
It’s been elaborated on by a married friend of a guy I was dating. In a letter of at least 10 pages. (Hey, does anyone remember “letters”, an ancient method of communication requiring pen and paper and a stamp?)
It’s been implied by my mother on several occasions.
It’s good that your stepmother didn’t compare your GF to some of the larger denizens at Sea World. I’m being a bit ironic here, but there are folks who wouldn’t hesitate to say such things, and they’re not all strangers on the internet.
If someone said that about my husband, I’d say, no, he couldn’t get better. He could get thinner, richer, younger, but better? NO. WAY.
Most people on this blog understand exactly what you’re talking about. I envision legions of readers nodding hard enough to dislocate their eyeballs.
Well, yeah, I guess the people on here do understand how pissed I was/am. It is just so amazingly infuriating that she would be judged on that part of her alone.
I haven’t told her about that comment. I can’t tell her. It would kill her inside. She is already stressed about my family and them not liking her because of her weight. I don’t need to let her know that the fear is justified at least with my step-mother. It scares me because I want to protect her from that.
Pardon my French, but fuck my step-mother. And fuck everyone else who thinks “thinner” is the same thing as “better.”
The important thing, Kevin, is that you are on her side. You may say, “Well, of course I am!”, but in my case it’s something I can never take for granted. No, don’t tell her about that stupid remark. But if you are ever in a situation where your girlfriend and stepmother are at the same event, try to make sure the two of them are never alone together. Enlist your sister’s help if necessary. I don’t know about your stepmother, but I’ve met people who can be quite nasty when there are no witnesses.
Oh, and not to double-post responses, but it should be said that my sister is awesome. She told me about this while we were alone on a ride that no one else wanted to ride. And she also told me that my step-mother needs to get to know my GF. My sister went on to tell me how she likes my GF, how my GF is fun to hang out with, easy to talk to and hang out with, and a bunch of those stuff. I know my sister isn’t just blowing smoke. I think she really likes my GF. She has definitely been the only one who asks me to hang out with the both of us.
So at least one person is on my side and can see past it. And at least one person in my family is willing to see what I see in her and not ask, “why is he with her?”
I usually don’t see fat hate on my newsfeed so this was an unwelcome surprise:
“morbidly obese people are gross…and simply disgusting while eating! Save the BK for the car fatty!”
not anyone close enough to me to warrant engaging in FA dialogue. but it still makes me rage >:/
Katherine,
What was the site? I’ll remove it immediately. Was it on our feed?
Peace,
Shannon
Oh, it was on my own private FB feed. Should have clarified—but I was typing with a drying manicure.
What kills me is that I have seen people of all sizes with terrible table manners that *are* truly disgusting to watch eat. But it has nothing to do with their size and everything to do with, well, everything else.
Possible replies:
My car doesn’t eat BK - it prefers gasoline.
Stay indoors and you won’t have to see morbidly obese people. What could be simpler?
I’m mostly a lurker around here, but I’ve reached the end of my tether and just had to vent somewhere to people who will understand.
In the last 6 months, my workplace has become an incredibly toxic place for me. A co-worker joined a gym to lose weight around that time, and while I’m really glad that she’s happy with her results, I can’t stand her constant talk about what she’s “not allowed” to eat. Her personal trainer has got her on a VERY restricted diet. She’s not an adventurous eater to begin with, so what she will actually eat of the things she’s “allowed” to eat is very limited. To top it off, she’s “allowed” one “cheat” meal per week - usually a weekday lunch when we all go and get food together - and when she “cheats”, she eats about 5 times as much as she would on a diet meal.
Everyone talks about how “good” she is for sticking to her diet and exercise plan, how “good” she is for “resisting” the plates of cookies that my boss sometimes puts out for everyone to share. It seems like everyone is constantly talking about “good” food and “bad” food, as if food can have morality, or how “bad” they are for eating cookies. I’m fat, newish to HAES and trying my best to figure out the intuitive eating thing and all this talk is driving me nuts. It has reached the point that I don’t want to eat with my co-workers any more, especially since she looks at what everyone else is eating with envy.
My workplace has not been a diet-talk-free-zone (my boss has been on a diet the whole 11 years I’ve worked here), but it was never as bad as this. I feel like my food choices are being judged sometimes. Everyone knows that I think differently about diets and weight-loss than they do, but they don’t seem to understand what all the diet talk is doing to me. I can’t easily say anything without creating animosity, so I just suffer in silence and/or try to change the subject.
I like this woman. I think she’s made a really positive step for herself health-wise by joining a gym (before she started to exercise, she was marginally mobile, and now she’s much fitter and stronger and can walk long distances - a remarkable transformation). She’s not responsible for the actions and words of the rest of my co-workers. Despite that, I find myself resenting her for effecting this change in the office, just by being on a diet. The one saving grace is that she’s going away on a work trip for 4 weeks, so hopefully things will be better for a while.
I apologize for the wall of text and semi-coherent rambling. It feels good to get it out!
Hey calantheliadon,
Wow… that’s a lot to have to cope with. And don’t worry about length, this is exactly what Let It Out is for.
First of all, if you feel like you’re peace of mind is at risk, then don’t eat lunch with these people for a few days. Go out and get away from their discussion. If you want to avoid the discussion for the moment, just make up an excuse, like you have a friend who’s sick and you want to visit him on your lunch break. You don’t have to listen to physically listen to them during the time in which you are supposed to be enjoying your meal.
Maybe they’re looking at your plate and maybe they’re not, but all the talk about good and bad foods can often go hand-in-hand with judgment on others’ plates. It’s hard not to feel paranoid about what they must think of your “bad” choices. Just get out on your own so that you can have a peaceful moment alone. I loved eating alone at some of the places I worked. It gave me time to gather myself for the rest of the day and I often enjoy quiet more than chatter.
So, make sure your own peace of mind is not put at risk here first and foremost.
Beyond that, it’s all dependent upon what you’re comfortable with. Speaking to a group is a bad idea, especially for the “enlightened dieter.” Talking to them is like fighting a hydra: each opinion you sever is replaced by two equally incorrect opinions. They’ll just wear you down.
But if you’re friends with this woman and you like her, then if you ever have a moment for a one-on-one conversation, you could at least bring up how uncomfortable all the diet talk makes you. I mean, most people are pretty decent and aren’t really aware of how diet talk can create anxiety in those with a lifetime of failed diets behind them. So, level with her, one-on-one, and see if she might not help tone down the rhetoric.
After that, it’s up to you as to whether you’re comfortable sharing info about HAES with her. You could even lend her a copy of “Health at Every Size,” the dietary portion of which would appeal very much to someone struggling with restriction (aka everyone). And if the exercise has helped her, then she will enjoy the sections on fitness and moving your body.
And, of course, the section on self-acceptance is something everybody needs to read.
I hope this helps, though it’s obviously something you have to play by ear and only you know exactly how to handle any situation. The fact that you’ve kept this in so long shows that you’re strong enough to deal with anything.
Hang in there and let us know how things go.
Peace,
Shannon
Have to vent. I really enjoy Huffington Post’s journalism on most things, but then they post things like this - Should Obese Children Be Taken From Their Parents?
To say I am livid is an understatement. Fucking thoughtless, brainless, obnoxious, body-policing, self-righteous arrogant moron … if I recall, this man has a history of hateful articles being published. Does anyone have a contact point at HuffPo where I can write and tell them how utterly offensive this kind of BULLSHIT is?
I saw that article too and I wanted to scream!!
Thanks for the tip. That was terrible. I seriously could not control my anger.
Peace,
Shannon
CC - probably wouldn’t matter what you wrote (or to whom) regarding Huffpo and their crap. HuffPo is no longer a truly legitimate news outlet for slightly-left-leaning or progressive people interested in the world around them. It’s now more of a high brow (relatively speaking, of course) version of TMZ or Inside Hollywood.
It used to be that about 25% of their articles were merely condensed versions of stories posted somewhere else, and to read the entire thing one had to click on the “read the whole story here” link. That link would often bring you to another legit news paper or blog or online magazine, etc. Now?
Now about 80% of their articles consist of a sensationalized headline, with one short paragraph, and then the link to read the whole thing somewhere else, like:
The Daily Mail, or The Sun, The National Enquirer, TMZ, Inside Hollywood, and other gossip and grocery store check-out line RAGS. It really is a shame….
Hi guys. A friend just posted this image on her Facebook wall: http://imgur.com/qeRZ0. This is how I responded:
“I agree with the metaphorical premise of this picture (that some people are greedy while others are impoverished), but I strongly object to the images used to express that premise.
First of all, the images of fat people are being used as an analogy for greed. But do you know that weight, in many developed Western countries, is strongly correlated with poverty? Poor people are *much* more likely to be fat than rich people; this occurs for various reasons, including less access to high-quality, nutritious foods, stress hormones, less access to medical care, available sleeping time, less access to safe places to exercise and so on, almost certainly including factors we don’t know about yet. And then there are the rich, who are more likely to be better off in all of these factors and are more likely to be thin. And overall, which, rich or poor, do you think are usually the greedy ones?
Also, I find the whole phenomenon of pictures of (headless) fat people and all the shaming that comes with it extremely distasteful. Nobody knows why these people are fat. They simply made the mistake of being fat in public and people took their pictures and assumed that they were fat because they were gluttonous or greedy or lazy or some other negative quality…but nobody knows this, it is just an assumption. You don’t know the reasons for *anyone’s* weight, seriously. I am fat, and people assume that this is because I eat too much. But they don’t know if I do, and they certainly don’t know that my internal organs have been persistently assaulted by my immune system for the last ten years, or that I was on massive doses of steroids (which cause weight gain) for several years. They don’t know that I struggle with eating disorder tendencies. They just assume that they know why I am fat, and they assume that I am The Problem and that it is okay to mistreat me.
So do stigma like this image help anything, by blaming a demographic which has strong correlations with poverty for the abject poverty of another group based on blatant assumptions about what caused their body size, instead of targeting the manipulative bastards behind the scenes who cause gross income inequalities and actually compromise poor people’s access to food by manipulating wealth to their own ends?”
Anything obvious I left out? I should note that this friend does tend to be very receptive to the things I say and willing to change her mind on things.
Rislaja, I think your response was right on target. All points covered nicely.
And as soon as I laid eyes on that image you linked to, I was offended also — for exactly the same reasons. Good job!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/28/miss-cicciona-pageant-plus-size-beauty_n_908800.html#s315566
Check out all the hate coming from the posters on this article. It actually made me feel so bad for the contestants, and bad for the people leaving them since they are full of hatred and ignorance.
Thanks Heather. I’m on it.
Peace,
Shannon
Thus with my magical hate-killing pen I have eliminated that fat hatred and judgement. I’ll keep an eye on it throughout the day. Thanks for the heads up.
Peace,
Shannon
And if they lower the cutoff point for obesity another few BMI points like they did in the late 1990s, then 85+% of us could be fat or obese without gaining a pound! Almost magical, isn’t it?
Randomly: I feel weird getting a fondness for Khloe Kardashian. Still, when I found out she didn’t want to keep promoting diet pills because she had to starve herself for it, it made her annoying score go down a few points. A lot of people do forget that so-called “pretty” people can still be stigmatized, and while it’s definitely not like Khloe Kardashian has all the world’s problems, I still approve when anyone says no to buying into the diet machine.
An entirely different matter: Outrage over rhyming diet picture book for kids … basically ‘starve yourself starting at age 4!’
Honestly, sometimes I just want to give up. Between this shit and the comments.
Here we go again! AOL/Huffington Post at it’s biased and bigoted best!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/11/normalizing-obesity_n_956111.html
Of course, the few comments there already are ignorantly approving of this ‘article / study’ — except for one person so far (me) who is trying to use logic and critical thinking skills to cut through this article’s bullshit. It’s pretty much falling on deaf ears (eyes) which is infuriating, as usual….
I am about to embark on either a pleasant adventure, or a Fattie’s “nightmare”….
My sister-in-law and I are going to a local “Fitness & Aquatic Center”…. to take advantage of a September 2-for1 membership coupon. Yes, we’re going to get the tour, and if all is to our liking, and there are no “attitude issues” about two fatties joining their center (so we can continue our own personal water-aerobics routine we started this summer) we will be signing on for a 3-month 2-for-1 membership.
Who knows, I may even take advantage of the different organized pool-exercise classes they have all during the week. But right now, Kim and I are only interested in getting back in a pool and “working it” for an hour or so at least three times a week. The sauna and hot spa is something we are looking forward to as well.
Since this place caters mostly to seniors and women (with separate pool, sauna and hot spa areas and entrances just for women), I’m hoping they have nice, accepting attitudes for large people who might not be ready to jump on machines and work out like gym rats… I’ll let you know how it goes.
My gut feeling is that since it caters to seniors and women, it will probably be comfortable for fatties as well. You’ll obviously run into the occasional bigot, but you can’t completely escape them. But water-based exercise is great, especially for fatties, and especially for those who hate exercise. Definitely give it three months and see if you acclimate well to the environment. Once you find a comfortable home for fitness, you’ll be so relieved! Good luck, Fab! And let us know how it goes.
Peace,
Shannon
Now the ” award winning chef -AND- nutritionist ” from The Biggest Loser is giving out dieting tips and sample menus on Huffington Post. “Eat like a Biggest Loser!”
Hurry!! Get there before you miss out on this! She CURED DIABETES! She CURED high blood pressure - in only THREE DAYS!!
Holy shit! Why didn’t we know how to do this??
Here’s my reply (that I’m sure will never see the light of day) to this BS article :
[[[ Did you know that one out of every four Biggest Loser contestantÂs has diabetes when they arrive on the Ranch? They ALL leave without it! You may also have heard on this season's premiere episode when Joe Mitchell reported that he'd been taking blood pressure medication for two-and-haÂlf years and was able to stop taking his meds after only three days at the Ranch! It has everything to do with the BL eating and fitness plan.]]]
I know you won’t print this… but that (above) is the biggest crock o’ shite ever. You CURED diabetes in just a few weeks? Blood pressure issue CURED - in 3 days! Wow. Medical miracles! Imagine that.
They claim anywhere from 30-60% of Americans are overweightÂ/obese, yet the diabetes rate for Americans is 8.3% according to the American Diabetes AssociatioÂn. Now how does that work out? Apparently diabetes is not *significaÂntly* more prevalent amongst obese people, otherwise the rate would be *at least* 30%, not 8.3%.
Stick to abusing, demeaning, and stigmatiziÂng fat people on TV for ratings… that’s about the only thing Biggest Loser is good for.
I’ll check it out, Fab. Yesterday I was policing the thread on Chris Christie’s comments about his weight. I’m exhausted!
Peace,
Shannon
Okay, here’s my comment. I kept it as clean as possible to ensure publication, but somehow I doubt it will make it. If not, I will raise a ruckus:
Hey Cheryl,
I find it odd that you don’t mention is that half of the Biggest Loser contestants have regained the weight since leaving the show.
I find it odd that you don’t mention that, until this season, contestants were encouraged to exercise between three and four hours a day, something the average American cannot afford.
I find it odd that you don’t mention the fact that virtually all of the Biggest Loser contestants have a BMI of over 50, which is an exceedingly rare demographic in this country (0.42% from what I have found), and that the vast majority of those who are classified as “obese” have a BMI between 30-40, which is significantly smaller than most BL contestants. Just 5’7% of the population has a BMI over 40 (aka morbidly obese)>
I find it odd that you don’t mention that the contestants on BL are given a weekly stipend of at least $500, not to mention that they are competing for a $250,000 prize, since getting paid to lose weight will surely skew the success rate.
And, finally, I find it odd that you don’t mention your show’s history of pushing contestants to brink of collapse, with former champions admitting that they took dangerous steps to ensure maximum weight loss which led to peeing blood or severe dehydration.
You can promote this new “cure” for obesity, but the Biggest Loser is not a laboratory and it isn’t the real world. The best approach to health is Health at Every Size, which focuses on balanced nutrition without caloric limitations, and they show significant metabolic improvements without the eventual relapse, which causes even more metabolic damage than you’ll ever see in the weight stable.
Your show is not a new paradigm for health. It is a celebration of shame and stigma, and you and your colleagues will never live it down.
Peace,
Shannon
Ooooh that is GOOD!! Thank you - from all of us! And you are probably right… your post will (most likely) join mine in pending and never come out.
Mine made it through! Hooray!
Peace,
Shannon
Well, look again… the half a paragraph mentioning HAES is missing!
I think you’ve been Edited!
Oh, I edited mine for space. Sorry, I should have mentioned that.
Peace,
Shannon
There is a very Piet Mondriandish look to the blog posts Atchka! Add some color to each of the rectangles and we got something visual going there! But I really wanted to throw my vent-ilator into the mix. Recently I was told that if I was thin I would have nothing to write about and that I would no longer be a size activist and that the only reason I am involved with any of this is because I am trying to find acceptance about my size so I better stay fat or I’d have to find another niche.
What part of SIZE acceptance don’t THEY understand??? The size of body and my weight should have nothing to do with the way people see me or judge me no matter where I fall on the spectrum at any given time. I am pretty tolerant and have a hefty set of deflector shields…but this barb of idiocy was a bit of a zinger. MEAN, STUPID PEOPLE SUCK!
Don’t know about stupid, but ignorant definitely. Trouble is that there have been some celebrities over the years who embrace size acceptance, but only if they’re fat. Then they lose weight and suddenly they are trashing their former fat selves. I can understand that people become cynical when they see this scenario repeated again and again. So the rest of us, most of whom aren’t so well-known, get accused of “making excuses”, or “giving up”.
“The size of body and my weight should have nothing to do with the way people see me or judge me…”
It shouldn’t, but it does. Me, I wouldn’t mind so much if the judgments were, on the whole, positive. I’m not one of those who just want to be admired for my inner qualities. I’m more of a package deal.
Deah,
I’m a cultural goon, so I had to look up Piet Mondrian and I have to agree.
Mulberry has an excellent point… there really are some people (like Jess Weiner) who espouse body positivity up to the point where they’ve found “the cure” for their “problem.” After they get thin and receive all the positive reinforcement, they drop Size Acceptance like a hot rock. And most of these self-accepting fatties have become a sort of SA proxy… they’re the closest thing to SA that most people will ever experience, unless they search out our blogs. So, seeing celebrities jump ship is going to create the appearance that SA is temporary until you’ve been “cured” of your fatness. Then you’ll join the rank and file.
But the worst (IMHO) is when the person still sort of clings to SA, but promotes their cure as the answer to the real solution that had escaped them up until that point. If they had only known, they wouldn’t have had to accept themselves… they could have just fixed the problem themselves and been happy all along.
There’s not much you can do about the assumptions people make. You just have to accept that people will ascribe motivation to your attitude based on their own experience and presumptions. It’s frustrating, but par for the course. Just keep living SA and they’ll eventually come around.
Peace,
Shannon
The reason I’m writing is less about what is wrong but how much participating in the forums on body acceptance has really changed my life.
I am in the midst of trying to survive an abusive set of dept heads at my job. A beloved co worker is bringing harassment charges against them and because we are friends, I have become their next target. The co worker said I have grounds to report harassment because she heard them laughing at me and making disparaging coments about my weight. Without a pause, without even a second I said “Thanks for the information but I have no problem with my obesity and they can say whatever the hell they want because it hasn’t nothing to do with me and everything to do with them.” Thanks FFF. I never would have felt that way 2 yrs ago
That’s so awesome. I love that you even said you don’t have a problem with your “obesity” which has become a dirty word, both within and outside of Fat Acceptance. Hell, it’s just a word. Throw it back at them for all it’s worth.
I hope your department heads get tossed out on their behinds. Glad we could help you bolster your confidence. Good luck, Priscilla!
Peace,
Shannon
thanks Shannon. This self acceptance thing, it’s a whole new world
I work for a company which has recently aligned itself with the 99% Movement, and I’m pretty damn proud of where I work. We were inundated with complaints from old conservatives. My personal favorite was the one calling me a “fat union cunt” and saying “all the women who work for you are probably fat whores who can’t get laid anywhere else.”
Wow, I think that’s a triple-whammy! Fat hate, misogyny AND conservative bullshit! *facedesk*
That’s awesome! Is there any benefit to the business for you to name the company here? I’d like to give them my business if possible.
I don’t see why it’d be a bad thing to speak highly of my company, really. It’s Men’s Wearhouse. They closed their Oakland, CA store (probably at least partly for loss prevention) but hung a sign in the window saying “We Support The 99%”. The next day a corporate statement was issued basically saying the same thing. I was thrilled.
Woohoo! Go Fat Union Cunts (FUCs)!
Peace,
Shannon
I’ve never been a Jaimie Oliver fan. I’ve made that very clear a couple times - here in FFF and elsewhere. That being said, please permit me just a moment or two of facetious amusement at Jaimie’s expense….
I recently saw a new video of Mr. J.O. and I must say, for someone who devotes his life and career trying to “end the obesity epidemic”, and explaining how “easy it is to eat right, lose weight and look great”, he’s gotten quite …umm… well… portly.
Ironic, no?
So here is my open letter to Jaimie Oliver;
“Dear Jaimie-
Wow, J.O…. you’ve gotten pudgy. Not that I’m judging, mind you. But gee, how come?
I’m really starting to be concerned for your health now, Jaimie.
Are you no longer eating garden fresh veggies? No longer calculating portion control?
Are you now eating McDonald’s and soda every day - like other fat people?
Have you given up on yourself?
Are you out of control?
Is your emotional state unstable?
Depressed?
Oh my god, are you binge eating? Why??
You must NOT CARE about yourself. You must NOT CARE about your family and loved ones, either, if you don’t get thin again and save all those years you’re losing by being fat and dying young. Because you KNOW you will die young, and the years you ARE here - well, they’re wasted because of being fat.
You must be doing something wrong. Why else would you have put on at least 25-30 pounds? You must be employing horrible eating habits. You must have gotten lazy.
You must have no willpower. No ambition. No gumption. No desire to be well.
You must be a slacker. You must not know HOW to eat well, what to eat, and how to cook it. You must not know the difference between “bad” food and “good” food.
Jaimie, you’ve gone over to the ‘dark side’ haven’t you?
You really need to stop being fat, NOW.
Everything I’ve said about you (above) MUST be true, Jamie.
It has to be true and we all know that — because according to you, and everyone else who is fighting this horrible Obesity Epidemic, there can be no other reasons you would be getting so chubby.
Unless……… ??
Unless that’s just the way you are meant to be, Jaimie - And you know what? That’s OK!!
Own it. Love yourself. Accept yourself. BE yourself.
But do us all a favor now, and back off with the “End Obesity” BS.
Get off those kids’ backs about eating salad every day and not enjoying certain foods and feeling guilty if they do… Stop assigning “Good” and “Bad” labels to foods. Stop assigning “good and “bad” labels to kids (and adults), based on how they LOOK.
Just come to grips with the idea that people come in ALL different sizes and shapes, and -fat or thin - they deserve to be treated with dignity, respect and loved as fellow human beings. Not negatively labeled, berated, or constantly shamed and blamed for how they look. As for (their) health, well, that’s their own business, not yours, not mine or anyone’s.
Good Luck Jaimie. Be healthy. Be happy. Be any size you are (or will be).
Just BE. “
Hey, fierce fatties! Was just wondering: we’ve all realized that BMI is basically horseshit, but what about waist to hip ratio? Is this a better health indicator, or more of the same horseshit that’s just been gilded over?
Hey kokoba,
This is a tricky question because I kinda/sorta have an answer, but it would take someone much smarter than I to ensure that it pertains directly to your question. Although waist-to-hip ratio has become the latest proxy for deadly fatness, the definition of metabolic syndrome does not use that as a metric. Instead, they use Waist Circumference. According to Gerald Reaven, the man who originally reintroduced metabolic syndrome (aka Reaven’s syndrome) in 1988 wrote a paper in 2005 that basically debunked the WC as a useful metric, as I wrote in this piece. His source for this was the findings of the Dr. Katherine Flegal who leads the research team responsible for the NHANES data (aka, the most reliable data on the relationship between anthropometric measurements and mortality), and she told me in this interview that waist circumference and BMI had essentially the same impact on morbidity and mortality data. So WC alone is useless.
However, WTH ratio is based on the belief that body shape determines the “dangerousness” of the fatness, and that the pear-shaped (gynoid) body indicates more subcutaneous, or “good,” fat, while the apple-shaped (android) body indicates more visceral, or “bad,” fat. So, WTH ratio is basically a measurement of body shape. The higher your WTH ratio, the more apple-shaped and, therefore, more visceral body fat.
Now, here’s where it gets interesting: I’ve been reading a shit-ton of research on weight cycling lately and one of the oft-cited effects of weight cycling is a change in body fat distribution, particularly in women. Several studies have demonstrated that weight cycling reduces hip/subcutaneous fat and increases abdominal/visceral fat, which many researchers have presented as evidence of the dangers weight cycling. However, those conclusions are based on anthropometric measurements. Other studies have actually biopsied the fat and found that while the shift from hip to abdominal fat does occur after weight cycling, the new abdominal fat is still subcutaneous fat, which would suggest that while the body shape is demonstrably changed, the type of body fat is still the same. So, the assumption that the change in body shape measurements corresponds to fat type is flawed in weight cycling studies.
Now, one problem with the one study I read that reached this conclusion is that it only looked at a single cycle, and not repeated cycles, which is the true danger of weight cycling. So, whether severe cyclers experience the same subcutaneous shift remains to be seen (for me, at least), but the fact that waist circumference is already a dubious indicator of health, and researchers cannot distinguish between visceral and subcutaneous fat by anthropometric measurements alone (as opposed to the significantly more invasive and complicated biopsy approach), suggests that the WTH ratio is also questionable. However, there are plenty of studies that purport to prove a relationship. I just haven’t read enough specifically about the subject to confirm or deny the connection.
If you’d like me to include the studies I got this information from, just let me know.
Hope this helps!
Peace,
Shannon
Thanks for such promptness! I was debating whether or not to introduce it as an alternative to BMI in a class I’m teaching (not that I’m a health teacher, but one of my ESL lessons was about trans fats and obesity). To my mind it seems like a bit of a better weight-blind indicator (a ratio can be the same whether you’re 90, 190, or 900 pounds), but it still reduces health to numbers at the end of the day. Though, moot point now, I realized; they’re done with trans fats, in the textbook. Now it’s robots.
It’s interesting about the movement of healthy fat around the body! The human body is such a vastly complicated and intricate machine.
Random thought of the day: I work for a men’s clothing company, and they sell suits with a smaller difference between jacket and trousers, designed for bigger guys. It’s usually referred to as Executive Fit, but apparently another common term in men’s clothing is Portly Fit. Just got me thinking … portly is often another word for fat, at least with men, but it’s synonymous here with “executive” … a word meaning powerful and strong. I don’t think it’s inherently misogynist, but it’s definitely another subtle way that reinforces that being Fat is somehow more okay for guys, especially older guys, than it is for women.
http://artoftrolling.memebase.com/2011/12/04/yahoo-answers-troll-they-cant-be-picky/comment-page-1/#comment-179485
I found this post to be so offensive that I reported it. Not only is it not funny and not trolling, but it’s a direct stab at overweight women and will only keep alive the last “acceptable” prejudice this country has. I know it’s memebase, but even that website has been pretty good about not being downright nasty to people. I was extremely upset by this post, and am questioning whether or not I will ever return to that site. I’m tired of the ridicule and I’m tired of the excuses. How immature can people be?
I just lost a friend because of fat prejudice.
She’s had weight issues her entire life, and wanted to lose weight for her health. Okay, I say. More power to you, I say. She’s had some success - about ten pounds in the last two months. Great.
She was talking about weight in her journal, and in fairness, I shouldn’t have clicked the post … but then I saw her and a “friend” saying nasty things about HAES. How the people who follow it are deluded and lazy. How anyone who believed in it was fooling themselves, because there’s “no way anyone can be healthy at 350 pounds.” I told her that she was wrong and I resented her mockery, and offered to link her actual science to explain things like BMI increases and alleged increased rates of diabetes.
She goes “Your sources are crackpots.” And starts trying to explain to ME why I’m misguided and how “my habits will kill me before it’s too late.”
The last straw was today- in her facebook, she linked to CHOA APPROVING of these hateful ads. “They’re harsh but totally necessary!”
I was and am livid. I hope she never has children, because with that kind of attitude, she’d ruin them. Why do people have to be so stupid and pathetic?
That sucks balls, and I’m so sorry. I would like to say that with a friend like that, who needs enemies, there are other people more worth your time, etc. But what happens when normal people turn on you like that? Or when the whole goddamn world hates you? Are you supposed to be some sort of a hermit then?
Does anyone else notice how the one time you ask someone to NOT be a total dick about weight, they whine about censorship, oppression, etc. I ask people all the time not to talk about weight loss around me. There are millions of other places to do that, and they don’t listen.
Anyway, be prepared that some people might blame you for this. They might say you’re too sensitive or that you should have been more diplomatic or whatever. Never will they suggest the bully was out of line for being, well, a bully.
Why must people be so stupid and pathetic? I wish I had the answer to that one.
CC, I’ve encountered A LOT of trolls like that. On the one hand, they will beg you to “cite your sources”, and then they will INVARIABLY pooh-pooh those same sources no matter how sterling they are.
My approach (somewhat controversial and not for everyone) is that I mock them back. It’s my Internet version of the Golden Rule - I assume they are treating me the way they want to be treated. What are they going to do in response - insult me? They’ve already insulted me, big deal. I usually prefer to be civil, but my civility is not guaranteed.
Mocking and flaming are different, BTW. Flaming is more emotionally taxing. Mocking tells them that you’re not going to take them seriously until they do as much for you.
I am continually amazed at how often fat people are accused of making excuses for their fat. Who the ever living fuck wants to be fat in this society? I am not refusing to do something I should be doing. I am not saying, “I want to lose weight, but I don’t have time/I can’t afford the right foods/I’m too tired, etc.”
I’m just fat, Einsteins. Get over it. I don’t need to “excuse it.”
Seems to me that rather than living in denial, that people really need to start being honest with themselves. These issues are embedded deep within the pysche. Truly psychological issues. The fact is, is that these people clearly just do not know how to look deep within. This is where true freedom is. They also forget, that what they show is pure weakness to that of others in the acting as if things are okay when quite simply they are obviously miserable. DENIAL! the task is in overcoming weaknesses!
Let me be honest with you, KNOW BETTER. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
Peace,
Shannon
I think we’d ALL understand your post a lot more if you would clarify who you mean by “these people”.
Are you implying Fat People? Anti-Fat people? Dieters? Anti-dieters? Fat Bully-ers?
So, like, WTF are you talking about?
Maybe he’s talking about himself.
I guess we’ll have to wait until he gets off the hallucinogens to find out the answer.
Poor Paula Deen.
I’m not a rabid fan of Paula’s, but I’ve watched her show from time to time, especially in the beginning when she was the most amusing and animated of ‘cooks’ on the FoodNetwork. But poor Paula… now she has diabetes.
I am constantly appalled at the hatred and the viciousness in the attacks against her now; all because of her personal health status. It’s all “serves her right!” and “Well, what do you expect when you cook and eat like a PIG and tell others to eat that way too?!” “She deserves it!”
People “deserve” diseases, now?
What would have been said if Paula never got diabetes, and eventually lived to be 90? Would we look into how her diet and food choices might have positively enhanced her longevity? Oh hell no we wouldn’t! Where’s the fun in that? We would have chalked it up to incredible LUCK and good genes.
I’m sure Paula has her yearly check-ups and medical exams. I’m sure she’s had blood work done many many times in the past. But diabetes is just cropping up now- after the age of 60 (she just turned 65), and this is NOT so unusual a time to crop up- for anyone!
There are many other cultures around the world where fried foods, with high fat content, or sweets are consumed as a daily practice, and they don’t have a diabetes issue. There are cultures around the world where foods are (what we consider) very “healthy” — and diabetes is an issue there as well. Diabetes is not a “food issue”. Diabetes is a BODY CHEMISTRY issue - that food can affect once you have it. Food doesn’t CAUSE diabetes.
What I find even more sad, is the way Paula herself seems to be all contrite and shameful in her acceptance of diabetes as “her fault”. She says nothing to defend herself; nothing to separate herself (and her diabetes) from her cooking / eating and her show. She is absolutely agreeing with the blame being placed on her and cowering under the shame of it all. Poor Paula.
(I wanted to write this in response to a Huffington Post story on Paula’s diabetes… but they don’t allow enough room, and besides, it’s useless there. But I wanted to vent just the same).
I’ve been lurking around Fat Acceptance sites for about a year now, and don’t have any fat friends to talk to about my new understanding and acceptance of myself and others. Something happened this morning that I don’t think anyone but my fellow fatties would empathize with. Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post personal stuff, but the code words here are “let it out,” so I’m taking that and running with it!
There was this Nutrisystem commercial on this morning, and the spokesman (probably 50-60 years old) was saying how he was overweight, never worked out, and his health was horrible. I made the comment around my boyfriend that those three things are completely unrelated. The spokesman being overweight isn’t a bad thing in and of itself, being active increases muscle and tone but doesn’t necessarily make you lose weight, and the health issues could be because he’s, well, older. I was talking about how genetics has a big part in whether you gain or lose weight easily because i have friends who could eat their body weight in Taco Bell every day and stay 105 pounds and then I know people who overindulge a bit over the holidays and gain 30 lbs in no time. That has nothing to do with how healthy they are…it’s just genetics and a multitude of other factors that have nothing to do with what they eat. My boyfriend said that eventually the weight would catch up to the naturally skinny people (vague future health threat, anyone?). I tried to refute this with more personal experience based evidence, but, unfortunately, the VFHT is such that there is virtually nothing you can say in response to it. This was frustrating enough, but then…
I made the mistake of asking him, “If I never lost a pound and stayed like this forever, would you still be attracted to me?” I have purposely avoided asking questions like this since I’ve gained the weight back from the diet I was on last year, because, first and foremost, my self-worth shouldn’t come from whether others deem my body attractive or not. What I eat, how much I move, and whether I gain or lose weight is no one’s business but mine. But anyway, he dodged the question and insisted that I would, in fact, lose the weight again because we are planning several hiking trips this year. I asked again. He reminded me that when I lost weight last time that I “was so hot.” So clearly, I have the ability to be that hot again.
To quote the lovely Ragen from danceswithfat…what with the who now?
Upon seeing the look on my face, he clarified and said I was beautiful right now, and I reminded him that we are planning on trying for a baby next year, and just what exactly does he think is going to happen when I get pregnant? And then get pregnant again for each of the five or more children he wants? What is going to happen 40 years from now when I am old and wrinkly? Is my worth as a partner going to diminish because I have stretch marks and wrinkles from the wonderful years we’ve had together?
He’s a wonderful, compassionate, strong man, and I love him. But this closed-minded viewpoint on what is or is not attractive is going to cause a serious rift if we’re not careful. I want to hear him out on this. But I am not going to compromise my healthy mental state and emotional balance that I have struggled for the past 2 years to arrive at just so I can fit into some random culturally-designed hotness cookie cutter shape.
What should I tell him? What questions should I ask? Is there anything I can say at this point to make it better?
Hi Reveille,
Welcome to Fierce Fatties and thank you for letting it out.
Wow, what a difficult situation to be in. Your understanding of the complexity of weight and health is solid, and your boyfriend seems to be in the traditional camp. Now, how to bridge that gap?
First off, I wouldn’t discard him outright. Education takes time and in this culture where weight loss is seen as a simple equation (eat less, move more), there are no amount of facts that will erase that doubt that society has sown deep in his psyche. So, what I would recommend depends upon your goals.
If you’re happy as you are and don’t want to make any changes, then you’ll have to convince him through a persistent education campaign that will require sharing information that you come across. Email him blog posts and studies and articles, like “The Fat Trap” in the NY Times, that demonstrate that your views aren’t something you’re pulling out of your ass. Sew the seeds of doubt in the current paradigm, and once he begins to at least question what he has always accepted, then buy a copy of Health at Every Size by Linda Bacon and see if you can get him to read it too. It’s a very convincing book, and offers some great research and assessment on health that are pretty persuasive.
The other approach might be easier in terms of persuasiveness. If you want to get healthy, then get the HAES book right away and start incorporating more physical activity and a more balanced, nutritious diet into your life (if you aren’t already). By actually living the theories you’re presenting him with, he will see first hand that you are making healthy changes, but that your body changes relatively little (most of the changes are internal, like swapping muscle for some fat). By demonstrating the principles of HAES, he will have a harder time refuting the fact that making healthy lifestyle changes doesn’t result in thinner bodies. Right now, he can make assumptions about other people, but if he sees your lifestyle choices and the results in action, then the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
If neither of these approaches is possible, or if neither works, then he may be too stubborn to persuade. Some people just can’t let go of their belief systems, no matter how much evidence you present to them. And if your sexiness depends upon your waist size, then he may just need to go find someone who suits his standards genetically.
All of this will depend upon how much you are willing to invest in saving this relationship. If it is worth the effort, then educating him is the way to go. It may take time, but the evidence is so overwhelming that most people would be hard-pressed to deny the truth forever. Hopefully, that’s where our culture is headed as well.
Good luck to you, and let us know how it goes.
Peace,
Shannon
This started as a rant but it has a happy ending (or as happy as I could get considering the circumstances) now so I figured I’d post it:
Why do people waste their miserable little lives saying bad things about other people?
I am on a dating site. I got a message that a guy sent me a “flirt”. The �flirt’ said “u r fat and look like u have downs syndrome please delete ur ad”. First reaction to this? Tears from feeling punched in the gut. Then I started thinking…
Oh gee, I’m fat? Wow I had no freaking idea you see I have neither looked at myself nor had any physical interaction with my own body for the past 20 yrs of my life. *sarcasm off* Thank you for pointing that out, you gigantic a**hat. �Fat’ may be an insult in the mind of many people, but to me (thanks in part to this awesome FA community), it is simply a statement of fact. When someone says it to me, I know they are usually using it as a �bad’ word, but that is their problem. I’ve gone from being hurt to feeling sorry for them because their world is very very small.
Oh and I see you have also insulted both me and everyone with a particular genetic disorder. So to recap what I understand of your opinions based on your own obvious mental deficiencies: Fat people and/or people with genetic disabilities are unworthy of love and affection and should not waste their time trying to find the same.
Because obviously everyone is looking for sensitive, thoughtful, wonderful gifts to humanity like this d*** who, instead of thinking “pass” when he saw my photo, wasted precious minutes of his pathetic existence and the effort of typing to send an insult to a complete stranger.
Oh this gets better!! When I went back to confirm my quote of the rude and pointless message of Mr. A**hat, he had bothered to send me another message: “u r so large please do not view my profile again thank you” I didn’t even bother with his profile, I just read his message because, um, a**hole? You wrote to me. Clearly you have unresolved issues and a subconscious fixation with voluptuous woman. I am sorry Jeff the Troll but you cannot have me. I do not date below my own species.
I can’t believe how fast I went from hurt to disgust to bemused pity.
Happy ending: Much as I would have loved to blast this miopic douchebag, I wasn’t going to waste my precious time writing to him (no troll feeding this time). Since I refuse to be a victim, I reported him to the site for harassment and violation of TOS. When I checked back after a few weeks his profile had been taken down. I was not happy with how long it took for them to respond to my complaint, since it made me sick to think of him using the site to access and insult other unsuspecting women. However justice (albeit *late*) was served, and at least one troll was “slain.”
People do things they can get away with, until someone stops them.
IT. IS. NOT. OKAY.
Keep fighting everyone!
Stay fierce!
Isn’t it great when you confirm within yourself that you are stronger and wiser than you expected yourself to be? Your initial reaction is the one society has convinced you is appropriate… when people say mean things about your body, you should feel sad, self-loathing and deserving of the negative attention. But once you realize that the cruel words of others say more about them than about you, you are suddenly imbued with a strength you never knew you had: the strength of not giving a shit.
Which is totally awesome. Congratulations on reaching this milestone in self-acceptance: the I’m-Too-Fucking-Awesome-to-Put-Up-With-Your-Shit Phase. It’s probably the funnest phase because suddenly you discover you can enjoy a lot more of the things you have previously found too difficult or felt too self-conscious to enjoy. Have fun out there, and this song’s for you:
Peace,
Shannon
“Why do people waste their miserable little lives saying bad things about other people?”
They do it to assert dominance and stir up adrenalin, which gives them good feelings. Or they ccould be asocial types who are blissfully unaware and uncaring about the existence of others. You responded well, and I hope this guy stays deleted.
There’s no escaping it, is there?
I am taking a class in creative nonfiction, and my latest assignment was to use drafting techniques to start a draft of a memoir. Do you know what one of the examples in the book was?
Someone doing a memoir of their weight loss. It was mentioned twice and I am only on chapter three. It was listed under “What big moments have happened in your life?
Oh my achin’ word. Can’t I go ANYWHERE without hearing about weight loss?
And for most people, weight loss makes up several big moments in a person’s life as they reach their dream weight again and again and again…
Yup, it’s the ubiquitous American dream.
Peace,
Shannon
Just found out about your site from the news stories on the Atlanta anti-obesity ads. While I’m all for combating unhealthy lifestyles, I agree with the inherent negativity to people based on body shape/size and not healthiness. There may be a correlation between obesity and many diseases, but correlation doesn’t = causation. Also, children on the playground should not be the one’s to decide when someone is fat, tubby, obese, etc., as children well under danger levels would likely also face negativity.
On the flip-side of all this though, I’m surprised that nowhere have I read about the possible increased health-risks of kids who perceive themselves as fat, and aren’t (people with anorexia, bulimia, etc). These ads could also lead to increased eating disorders of the opposite end of the spectrum and worsen those who already have them by adding to their feelings of poor self-image, inside and out.
(I couldn’t comment on the BBC site so I figured I’d share it with the staunch advocate quoted on their site).
Thanks A. Skinny, and welcome to Fierce Fatties. I totally agree with your comments, especially on the effects these ads are having. Yesterday, I interviewed the clinical director for an eating disorder clinic in Atlanta, and he said the ads are having a real impact on their patients. The people with binge eating disorder are feeling even worse about themselves and the people with anorexia and bulimia have basically had their worst nightmares confirmed by these billboards. It affects people of ALL sizes.
Health is not about what you look like, but about how you care for your body, as well as all of those other factors you don’t control, like your socio-economic status and genetic inheritance.
Thank you for joining the fight and speaking out!
Peace,
Shannon
Lanny, Muheeb, Alejandra, Jordyn - who are these people and what are they talking about? Doesn’t seem to have anything to do with us.
Ok, so speaking of unlikely allies, there was a story today on “The Five” (fox news round table show) berating the new white house regulations on school vending machines. The conservatives on the show universally agreed it is ridiculous for the president to dictate our foods in any way, and that legislating people’s diets is beyond an overreach of government authority. Of course, in the next breath there was the comment that liberals don’t care if you “kill a baby” as long as you don’t eat Cheetos. But that’s the irony, isn’t it? Liberals and conservatives b
Sorry! Trying to post from my phone…. Fail.
Anyways, my point was that both parties think its ok to dictate things in your personal life, they just differ on what. Where’s the party for people who don’t want the government telling them how to eat, when to exercise, how to invest my money, what I do in my bedroom (or with who), or how to care for my own reproductive health? Or anything else for that matter. Notice to everyone in DC…. Stop trying to legislate your own ideas of morality!!!!! And I’m gonna go find a vending machine tomorrow and buy me a snickers
Thanks for letting me vent!
I have a question, and this seemed like the best place to ask it. Is there a way to lock down part of the site, but not all of it? Because quite frankly, I had something awful happen to me today. I’m really upset, and I think a lot of you would understand. But given what’s happened lately, I’m afraid to post it here. This is not a safe space anymore.
CC,
There’s no way to lock down portions of the site, but if you want to try our Facebook forum, it’s more secluded (about 100 members, all fans), or you can email me privately at atchka hotmail.
Peace,
Shannon
Thanks. Working on both.
You could email me privately at joannadeadwinter@gmail.com. I myself am developmentally disabled and I feel your challenges. Anyway, I’m a great ear and a good place to vent. Have a better day.:)
You can email me - vesta44@gmail.com too if you want, don’t know how much help I can be, but I can offer a sympathetic ear (and an empathetic one too).
I just ran across this unfortunate HuffPo article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/30/obesity-costs-dollars-cents_n_1463763.html?ref=mostpopular) and I’m really, really hoping one of the FFF bloggers can tackle it. I’m assuming these numbers have been tampered with/played up/outright made up as they usually are where it concerns Teh Fatties!!11!
I don’t know when I’m going to learn to either (a) not click on these damn links to begin with but certainly (b) NOT read the damned comments. There’s one lone commenter battling the “you can be thin if you try hard enough!!1! FATTY!!11!”. I would love to see what FFF would do with it.
I sent that link to Shannon yesterday actually. It was the headline on HuffPo (ugh.) yesterday morning, complete with headless fat man torso as the headline image.
Hi Amy,
I’m planning to write about it for a post a week from Monday. This is like a post compiling the greatest hits of Fatty’s Destroy the Earth! My favorite was the one about how fatties cost more in fuel consumption. How much more? 0.8%! Quick, somebody blame the fatties for our rampant energy usage!
Peace,
Shannon
LOL!
Oh, I can’t wait!
I’m waiting for this headline: Tanning Addict Fatties Causing Sun To Dim: Experts Say Eat Less Move More To Avoid Catastrophic Collapse of Life on Earth
Hey, ya gotta laugh.
How original.